[Feature] Additional Wonders

[freethink]

Looking at the list some more, I realized that almost all wonders towards the end of the game are feats of engineering or science; there is almost nothing religious or cultural, except the Lotus Temple and Harbour Opera. I think a strong contended for a cultural wonder at the end of the tech tree is the Guggenheim Museum (the Bilbao one). As Wikipedia puts it:

In game, I think the most fitting tech is Aerodynamics or Computers, representing the fact that advances in materials science and computer technology were necessary to build it. The associated Great Person would be the Great Artist. It would give a fair amount of culture, maybe +25% or +50%.

The effect would have to be fairly powerful for the wonder to be worth building at the end of the game, when culture has no time to accumulate much anymore. I suggest a two-fold effect: Great Works can be done by Great Engineers, and +100% Culture from Great Works. This would make the wonder useful for players trying to complete a culture victory.

Now I'm not aware of a 3D model for the museum, which may make this proposal infeasible, but I think it'd be worth creating one if we can.

I have been looking for a model but cannot find one. I don't know if a generic museum file could be used to stand in here.

 

[freethink]

Wonder Proposal:
African Rennasanice Monument
Real Picture:
Graphics: No but I wonder if this fantasy statue graphic could be used: https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/fantasy-statue.23011/
Conditions: Can only be built by Ethiopia, Congo, Morroco (or a civ whose capital is in Africa)
Requires: Psychology and Tourism
Effects: +6 Great Artist, +4 Great Stateman +100% city culture bonus, + 6 , +25% gold in the city, if possible diplomatic bonus with all other civs.
Construction Bonus with Iron and the Revolutionism civic.

Wonder Proposal:
Gobekli Tepe
Graphics, and Photo
Conditions: Requires Mythology and Animism
50 hammers
Effects: +2, +2 Great Prophet, in a+1 happiness in all cities without religion.
Obsolete by Priesthood

Wonder Proposal:
Tianning
Graphics and Photo
Conditions: Requires Buddhism and Theology or Buddhism and Confucianism
Effects: +2 , +1 Hammer from Artist in all cities, city more likely to generate great prophet or artist


Edit: I just realized Stonehenge was removed (most likely a long time ago)

 

[Publicola]

Stonehenge and Gobekli Tepe predate the timeframe of this mod, and were both built by groups who didn't have 'cities' or weren't 'civilizations' in a form that this game can currently recognize. I think there was a proposal to add a 'natural landmarks' feature, that could potentially include prehistoric wonders of this sort to the landscape, but that hasn't been implemented yet (and won't be until after the new map is finalized).

Also, I think the African Renaissance Monument was proposed early, and denied because it was basically a scam (?) Something about it was built by North Korea for an African dictator who was using it to prop up his own sense of superiority? To be fair, many World Wonders in this game are vanity projects, but I think it was rejected because it doesn't really fit the criteria of being a wonder built by Africa itself.

 

[freethink]

Stonehenge and Gobekli Tepe predate the timeframe of this mod, and were both built by groups who had 'cities' or were 'civilizations' in a form that this game can currently recognize. I think there was a proposal to add a 'natural landmarks' feature, that could potentially include prehistoric wonders of this sort to the landscape, but that hasn't been implemented yet (and won't be until after the new map is finalized).

Also, I think the African Renaissance Monument was proposed early, and denied because it was basically a scam (?) Something about it was built by North Korea for an African dictator who was using it to prop up his own sense of superiority? To be fair, many World Wonders in this game are vanity projects, but I think it was rejected because it doesn't really fit the criteria of being a wonder built by Africa itself.

What can I say? Wonderous Feedback as always.
Meanwhile, the search continues for wonders with graphics...

 

[freethink]

Still can't find the Guggenheim but I did find this for a modern arts wonder:
Alhamra Arts Council

 

[Steb]

I have been looking for a model but cannot find one. I don't know if a generic museum file could be used to stand in here.

The distinctive appearance of the museum is kind of very important for its status as a wonder, so I'd say no?

 

[Joij21]

Wonder Proposal:
Gobekli Tepe
Graphics, and Photo
Conditions: Requires Mythology and Animism
50 hammers
Effects: +2, +2 Great Prophet, in a+1 happiness in all cities without religion.
Obsolete by Priesthood

For Gobekli Tepe to work you'd have to set the start year back to 10,000 BC with early proto-cultures as civs since that is the time when it was constructed.

The mod as of now starts at 3000 BC just after the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt. So it would make more sense if that wonder was reserved for a mod mod that includes an earlier start.

 

[black213]

The Danevirke/Danewerk could be an interesting addition for the pre-Christian Norse.

 

[merijn_v1]

The discussion about the Guggenheim museum made me enthusiastic about creating a model for it, especially after seeing its unique looks. I think I will create a model for it. Even if it isn't used by this mod, I will have fun in doing it and I'm sure someone in the community can make use of it.

 

[Steb]

I updated my wonder list with a "Suggested Wonder" tab, including Krieger-FS's recent suggestions and a few of mine. Feel free to comment or add new suggestions to it.

 

[Publicola]

I updated my wonder list with a "Suggested Wonder" tab, including Krieger-FS's recent suggestions and a few of mine. Feel free to comment or add new suggestions to it.

Thanks! Looks like we already had an impressive list. I contributed suggestions for Gamla Uppsala (Norse temple), Hu'amonga 'a Maui (Polynesian monument), Cluny Abbey (French monastery), and the Arsenal (Venetian shipyard complex).

 

[freethink]

I put a couple in as well! Hopefully, Hobbiton doesn't seem crazy, but the graphics are ready to use!

 

[Steb]

I think I had a good idea for a Rome Pantheon wonder effect: Gain +50 gold (or some appropriate amount) whenever a Pagan Temple is converted to a major religion temple. Pagan Temples are always converted instead of abandoned.

This would have the nice effect of both encouraging Rome (or Greece or whoever builds it) to develop its pagan religion and build a lot of temples, and to convert to Christianity and spread it. It also fits thematically since the Pantheon was a pagan temple (to “all the gods”) that later became a Catholic church (and still is).

The second part of the effect is added to make sure you don't lose some of the bonus when religion begins spreading due to abandonment and to allow for a period of coexistence in which you can still build temples even as the religion spreads. But it could also be left out to encourage quick conversion.

The tech for the wonder obviously has to be Cement, given that the Pantheon boasts the largest concrete dome ever built.

 

[freethink]

I think I had a good idea for a Rome Pantheon wonder effect: Gain +50 gold (or some appropriate amount) whenever a Pagan Temple is converted to a major religion temple. Pagan Temples are always converted instead of abandoned.

This would have the nice effect of both encouraging Rome (or Greece or whoever builds it) to develop its pagan religion and build a lot of temples, and to convert to Christianity and spread it. It also fits thematically since the Pantheon was a pagan temple (to “all the gods”) that later became a Catholic church (and still is).

The second part of the effect is added to make sure you don't lose some of the bonus when religion begins spreading due to abandonment and to allow for a period of coexistence in which you can still build temples even as the religion spreads. But it could also be left out to encourage quick conversion.

The tech for the wonder obviously has to be Cement, given that the Pantheon boasts the largest concrete dome ever built.

I always thought for Rome the game seems to encourage leaving the 'Old Gods' too early. I also thought with the UHV, that building an Olympian temple is a waste of time because they will soon vanish and they are a distraction, but given Rome's building spree and its pre-Christian system that made little historical sense.

I think the second part is important to keep in. I don't think Rome should convert straight away- is a powerful ruling class going to abandon traditions because of a prophet peacefully? No, not without substantial change that occurred in the historical Rome for centuries.

 

[Steb]

Not to bring this thread back to Europe of all places but the lack of Protestant religious wonders also strikes me as odd. Maybe Westminster Chapel should be in after all? Although Westminster Palace and Chapel both as wonders would also be weird, and London already is wonder heavy.

The tallest church in the world at the moment (until they finish the Sagrada Familia) is a Protestant one: the Ulm Minster. It might be a good candidate if we can find a model, though there is some awkwardness over the fact that it was at first Catholic and medieval, with its construction starting in the 14th century, yet it wasn't completed until 1890, long after it was converted to Protestantism. So I don't know what tech it should require, or whether it would make sense to force it to be Protestant.

 

[Krieger-FS]

In the last few days I've been looking for more possible African wonders, particularly in central and southern regions, as all my previous suggestions focused in Sahel, Ethiopia and North Africa. While there are some obvious candidates (I'm looking at the Great Zimbabwe), there is the issue that we need to have a civ able to build it. So I looked for more modern architectural landmarks that may become wonders and we can discuss if any of these could be included. Note that I'm mostly certain that we don't have a model for any of them.

Kasubi Tombs, Uganda

Spoiler :

Independence/Black Star Square, Ghana

Spoiler :

Nabemba Tower, Republic of the Congo

Spoiler :

Basilica of Our Lady of Peace, Ivory Coast

Spoiler :

Arch 22, Gambia

Spoiler :

Zeitz Museum, South Africa

Spoiler :

Lideta Mercato, Ethiopia

Spoiler :

 

[freethink]

I wanted to propose the Nambena Tower but I was hesitant to propose any wonder without graphics- after casing the civ fanatics wonder files I have come to the conclusion there are big limitations here. I am starting to think about generic graphics that can be used as a stand-in for African wonders but I don't know how many African graphics are already in the game especially on VD as I haven't used that module for five years.

 

[Steb]

Not sure if this should be a wonder or rather, as in the case of the Internet, a world project, but I think the Transatlantic Telegraph Cable is worthy if being represented. It was a really big deal when Europe and America were connected and could communicate instantly as opposed to having several weeks of communication delay. There were parades and stuff. Arguably it was more revolutionary than the Internet itself.

This happened in the 1850s. The relevant tech would be Electricity. Not sure what the effect should be — something about tech diffusion, or communication with faraway civilizations?

(Why yes, I have just read a book on the history of the telegraph, why do you ask?)

 

[Derdan]

Wasn't Britain able to intercept all of Germany's telegraph messages across the Atlantic during WW1? That might make it worthy of a bonus to espionage. Something like +100% espionage against enemies while at war? Seems pretty dull though. I'm sure someone can think of something better

 

[trevor]

(Why yes, I have just read a book on the history of the telegraph, why do you ask?)

Cyrus W Field should absolutely be a Great Engineer.