[Feature] Additional Wonders

[Leoreth]

Also consider that expired wonders don't count for the limit.

 

[Vectors]

Also consider that expired wonders don't count for the limit.

Where does it state the exact rules by which wonder slot limit follows?

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know if I added the rules to the pedia.

 

[Vectors]

I don't know if I added the rules to the pedia.

Okay, so I am not losing it, I couldn't find it because it isn't detailed.

The first time I ran into the rules, I was going to build a wonder and couldn't, I looked in the Pedia for details and could not find it, it was very frustrating.

 

[Sinsyne]

Yeah I just don't see it happening with the AI. Arabia would need two prophets since the first naturally builds the Muslim shrine.

So I just noticed Dome of the Rock only requires Islam in Jerusalem, not Islam as state religion as I thought. My bad. Turns out the Dome is viable after all for any civ conquering Jerusalem after the Arab spawn.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Request: I don't know how this will sound, but would we be able to add the Palace of Sao Cristovao as a tribute?

As far as I know, there's no available art, but I think we may do that as some sort of tribute for the museum that was recently lost in a fire.
As its effect, my ideas are:
-Requires Catholicism, a Palace or Administrative Center, and being outside of the Catholic holy city's continent.
a. More likely to spawn a Great Artist, and Great Artists can rush the production of Wonders.
b. More likely to spawn a Great Engineer, +20% Production per Academy or Museum.
c. More likely to spawn a Great Scientist, +1 relations with all civs per Museum.

 

[merijn_v1]

The wonders are included now, but they all are stilling missing strategy and pedia texts. I think we can make this a collaborative project, just like the translation project.

 

[Leoreth]

Sure, I had hoped someone would start doing that, but I can create a thread if that creates more of an impetus.

 

[Orbii]

Some brief thoughts on the balance of the new late game wonders from my (in-progress) 1700AD Prussia playthrough:

• Nobel Prize and Neuschwenstein (sp?) Castle are extremely strong wonders. I had the Nobel in conquered Paris and Neuschwenstein in Berlin, and each city just churned out Great People. I can't even imagine how strong the two would be if they were stacked together in one city. Neuschwenstein also comes a bit too late in the tech tree to really be used properly in the Prussian UHV, as I built it in 1858 when I already had 5/7 settled in Berlin.
• I was able to build Golden Gate Bridge in Kiev (in the standard position), even though Kiev does not have access to the coast and this is supposed to be a requirement for the wonder.
• The free specialist wonders (Crystal Palace, the Bourse) are in my opinion very hammer expensive for their effects.

Will post some more thoughts as I keep playing, but I will corroborate that the tech leaders tend to just completely monopolize the wonders, and that at least in the 1700AD start the 'proper' builders of the wonders don't build them. As a disclaimer on this point of feedback, I did throw a grenade into the European status quo by razing Amsterdam on Turn 4 and conquering Britain soon after, thus eliminating two tech leaders.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks, I'll address the feedback.

In general many wonder effects are not balanced and often too powerful. I mostly implemented the general idea of the effect and decided to wait on feedback to balance later. So in the case of the Nobel Prize and Neuschwanstein, I'll decrease their effects somewhat, and see if I can move Neuschwanstein one column earlier.

More balance feedback like this is welcome.

 

[Vectors]

The Old Synagogue of Krakow and the Kremlin are currently not built in the 1700 start, they both predate 1700 by a fair bit

 

[Leoreth]

Right, they were added after I updated the scenario. Noted.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

...I will corroborate that the tech leaders tend to just completely monopolize the wonders, and that at least in the 1700AD start the 'proper' builders of the wonders don't build them.

And this is why Wonders located outside of Europe and the United States need to have more requirements that narrow down who gets to build them (religion, geographic features, resources, civics, etc). I recently played a game as Mexico, but most of the wonders were built by America, England, Germany, the Netherlands, Russia, and Turkey.

For example, a good one is the Basilica of Guadalupe, which requires it to be built in a different continent besides the Catholic holy city's. This narrows it down to mostly colonial Europe, Latin America and Congo.

 

[Orbii]

With the playthrough finished, some more wonders thoughts:

• Metropolitain is very strong, especially for how early it comes. In a supercity, it's just categorically better than the Empire State Building, which comes later in the tech tree (see below screenshot for the effects of both in Berlin). I didn't build it as it comes far in the future, but comparing the Metropolitain's bonus to the Oriental Pearl Tower at the below screenshot and to Berlin's size again shows how strong the wonder is compared to the other 'supercity wonders' (Oriental Pearl would give 25 x 2 = 50 beakers, which is equal to the 50 commerce of Metropolitain, when Berlin isn't even fully infrastructured. It is likely that the two would break even at a fully populated and developed city, but Metropolitain comes far earlier. If the screenshotted Berlin is fully developed w/o any additional variables, it can reach size 27 with slight starvation, and build an additional ten buildings to get to 35 buildings. Oriental Pearl would give 54 beakers, and Metropolitain 70 commerce.).
• The Palace of Nations has a really fun effect, but the Congresses it triggered all turned into duds with no request opportunities. This may have been because I (who built the thing) was almost always at war.
• I didn't have the chance to build them before the game's end, but Gardens by the Bay and Harbour Opera both seem a bit weak, especially compared to the aforementioned Metropolitain. Harbour Opera may be worth its input, but it comes so late that it may not pay off, and it could actually be obscenely broken if stacked with some other wonders (Emerald Buddha Temple and the National Theatre in particular come to mind).
• Hubble Space Telescope is a strictly better wonder than the Large Hadron Collider (not accounting for the tech paths). They cost the same number of hammers and give the same research modifier and GPP, but Hubble does not require a Laboratory to build and also gives culture, while the LHC does not.
• Crystal Cathedral has two fun effects, but the numbers feel too weak. Pumping them to 1 Happiness / 15% gold (if this is possible) and/or +2 Commerce per priest wouldn't be ridiculously broken, I think, particularly given the rarity of Priests as specialists in the late game.
• Golden Gate Bridge (aside from the aforementioned bug) is a good wonder that feels really great to build: it costs an appropriate amount of hammers for its effect, and its effect can really be felt when built by any of the late game civs (Japan, Prussia, USA) who tend to spam Engineer/Scientist in their cities. I imagine the Skytree would have a similar feeling upon being built, but it comes rather late, and would also be obscene if combined with Golden Gate.

Lastly, some screenshots to show both the aforementioned strength of the Metropolitain (and some wonder spamming in Berlin), and the wonder spread for the lategame. Note that these were taken a turn after the completion of the Prussian UHV, so obviously all of Europe is under the German yoke and that reflects in the ownership of wonders. The important bit is that this shows how concentrated wonder construction was in Europe, and furthermore, I built most of the wonders, not conquered them. In general, I think the late game wonders are really fun to play with for the most part; there's just a few outliers as far as wonder strength that hearken back to vanilla BtS Pyramids in how transformative they can be.

Spoiler Screenshots :

 

[Ani Taneen]

I wanted to bring in an old idea I've proposed. At least to document it here:

Shrine of The Book

• All Priests and Settled Great Prophets in city produce +1
• +2 Scientist
• Double Production Speed With: Stone
• Tech Prerequisite: Tourism
• Other Requirements: Temple of Solomon
• Alternate Primary Effect: City ruins produce +200 When removed
• Discription: This Section of the Israel musuem houses the Dead Sea Scrolls, which date to the second century BC. And the and the Aleppo Codex, a 10th century manuscript. These texts are of texts are of great historical, religious, and linguistic significance, bringing tourists and scholars from around the world
• Reasoning: Gives Jerusalem, with it's two shrines and at least one religion oriented wonder, Plus any addtional temples (since it often has 3 or more religons), additional value in the Modern era, rewarding players for capturing a city that till this day is the center of much conflict.

Though, looking at steb's point,

Are you aware that the Dome of the Rock has the double max shrine income effect, and requires the Temple of Solomon, effectively making it an upgrade for Jerusalem? The only thing is that it must be built by a Muslim civ.

Maybe a modern reward for shrines?

 

[Ani Taneen]

Looking for more options for Latin America, I remembered the fortifications in Habana and the role they played in bringing gold to Spain from all the colonies.

I had an idea back in the old thread:

The first is in Colombia, Santuario de Las Lajas, Colombia
This wonder could provide additional resources from jungles and eventually from forest preserves. Given that the current structure is modern, maybe it should be unlocked with tourism?
Personally I think it should give one gold and one culture for each forest preserve in the region and a priest slot for each jungle.

A wonder that requires the city to be next to a mountain and also benefits jungles would definitely not appear in Europe.

 

[merijn_v1]

I had an idea back in the old thread:

A wonder that requires the city to be next to a mountain and also benefits jungles would definitely not appear in Europe.

Las Lajas Sanctuary is already included as a wonder.

 

[Leoreth]

With the playthrough finished, some more wonders thoughts:

• Metropolitain is very strong, especially for how early it comes. In a supercity, it's just categorically better than the Empire State Building, which comes later in the tech tree (see below screenshot for the effects of both in Berlin). I didn't build it as it comes far in the future, but comparing the Metropolitain's bonus to the Oriental Pearl Tower at the below screenshot and to Berlin's size again shows how strong the wonder is compared to the other 'supercity wonders' (Oriental Pearl would give 25 x 2 = 50 beakers, which is equal to the 50 commerce of Metropolitain, when Berlin isn't even fully infrastructured. It is likely that the two would break even at a fully populated and developed city, but Metropolitain comes far earlier. If the screenshotted Berlin is fully developed w/o any additional variables, it can reach size 27 with slight starvation, and build an additional ten buildings to get to 35 buildings. Oriental Pearl would give 54 beakers, and Metropolitain 70 commerce.).
• The Palace of Nations has a really fun effect, but the Congresses it triggered all turned into duds with no request opportunities. This may have been because I (who built the thing) was almost always at war.
• I didn't have the chance to build them before the game's end, but Gardens by the Bay and Harbour Opera both seem a bit weak, especially compared to the aforementioned Metropolitain. Harbour Opera may be worth its input, but it comes so late that it may not pay off, and it could actually be obscenely broken if stacked with some other wonders (Emerald Buddha Temple and the National Theatre in particular come to mind).
• Hubble Space Telescope is a strictly better wonder than the Large Hadron Collider (not accounting for the tech paths). They cost the same number of hammers and give the same research modifier and GPP, but Hubble does not require a Laboratory to build and also gives culture, while the LHC does not.
• Crystal Cathedral has two fun effects, but the numbers feel too weak. Pumping them to 1 Happiness / 15% gold (if this is possible) and/or +2 Commerce per priest wouldn't be ridiculously broken, I think, particularly given the rarity of Priests as specialists in the late game.
• Golden Gate Bridge (aside from the aforementioned bug) is a good wonder that feels really great to build: it costs an appropriate amount of hammers for its effect, and its effect can really be felt when built by any of the late game civs (Japan, Prussia, USA) who tend to spam Engineer/Scientist in their cities. I imagine the Skytree would have a similar feeling upon being built, but it comes rather late, and would also be obscene if combined with Golden Gate.

Lastly, some screenshots to show both the aforementioned strength of the Metropolitain (and some wonder spamming in Berlin), and the wonder spread for the lategame. Note that these were taken a turn after the completion of the Prussian UHV, so obviously all of Europe is under the German yoke and that reflects in the ownership of wonders. The important bit is that this shows how concentrated wonder construction was in Europe, and furthermore, I built most of the wonders, not conquered them. In general, I think the late game wonders are really fun to play with for the most part; there's just a few outliers as far as wonder strength that hearken back to vanilla BtS Pyramids in how transformative they can be.

Spoiler Screenshots :

View attachment 503954

View attachment 503955

View attachment 503956

Agreed about the Metropolitain, I already noticed how strong it was when implementing it. Not sure if there's a way to weaken the effect or if I need to think of something else.

 

[Temujin8k]

Agreed about the Metropolitain, I already noticed how strong it was when implementing it. Not sure if there's a way to weaken the effect or if I need to think of something else.

Maybe make it for every 2 buildings or 3 instead of for every building?

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

As for Wonder requirements, I'll suggest these:

• I don't know if Burj Khalifa requires being built on or next to a desert, but it could also have an Islam and/or Monarchy requirement.
• Gardens by the Bay are on Singapore. What could we have to guarantee a probability of it being built by any Southeast Asian civ? Buddhism + Confucianism?
• I think either the University of Sankore should have an earlier requirement, or Mali should spawn with less technologies away from Education. It was built in the late 10th century and was significant by the 14th century, but most of the times it is built later than the 15th century.
• Would it be a good idea to restrict the Hermitage to Orthodoxy and/or Monarchy?
• Why does Oxford University require Academia and Protestantism if it was built in medieval times? Maybe it was to guarantee accuracy in who builds it in exchange of moving it to a later time. I would change the Academia requirement for Education, Protestantism as being an alternative requirement to Catholicism, and maybe a different landmass than the holy city.
• It doesn't make sense that Sagrada Familia can be built by non-Catholic civs. A coast requirement would also make sense, as its design is inspired by the sea, like most of Antonio Gaudi's works.
• The Tsukiji Fish Market, as its name implies, should also require access to fish. It could also require Buddhism.