Feminism

[Zack]

Feminism routinely prioritises issues that affect women

...duh? That's the whole point. Where do you think the name comes from? If you think men need to fight for their rights, then do it, instead of complaining how evil feminists aren't fighting for men's rights.

 

[useless]

...duh? That's the whole point. Where do you think the name comes from? If you think men need to fight for their rights, then do it, instead of complaining how evil feminists aren't fighting for men's rights.

Alternatively, work with feminists whom believe patriarchy is also harming men, especially in terms of mental health stigma, victims of molestation and rape, culture of masculinity harming men in terms of making them need to conform to certain expected ideas etc.

Nah, its much easier just to cry and whine about those evil ********s

 

[Senethro]

Man sitting in old boys club after hard day drinking in board room: "Why aren't those feminists more inclusive?"

Actual man: "Hey, not all men are like that! But also why aren't those feminists more inclusive?"

 

[Farm Boy]

Alternatively, work with feminists whom believe patriarchy is also harming men, especially in terms of mental health stigma, victims of molestation and rape, culture of masculinity harming men in terms of making them need to conform to certain expected ideas etc.

Nah, its much easier just to cry and whine about those evil ********s

I sympathize with the sentiment. That's pretty similar to the takeaway I have regarding religion. It's exhausting to deal with the fact that large, worthy dogmas will inevitably attract crazies along with good, honest, and caring folk.

 

[caketastydelish]

the suffering inflicted upon men is justified by the inflicting suffering upon others, historically.

Goddamn quote me.

There ya go.

 

[Perfection]

I thought I'd make a little Venn diagram of what luiz has been saying in case it helps:

Discuss.

Note that the Elite is composed primarily of men.
Also note that while most men are oppressed by the Elite, the women are oppressed by both the the Elite and men in general. (of course in liberal societies this is improving)

 

[caketastydelish]

Care to elaborate on how women are oppressed by 'men in general'? I do not oppress women.

 

[Perfection]

I'm speaking in terms of historical generalizations where social norms were strongly patriarchal within familial roles. Liberalism has changed that significantly. (Though I think there's a bigger remnant then many realize)

 

[Zack]

Care to elaborate on how women are oppressed by 'men in general'? I do not oppress women.

Do you know what "men in general" means? Not necessarily on an individual level.

 

[Perfection]

I should also make note to caketastydelish, that he may well act in a way complicit or furthering of women's oppression unknowingly.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

...duh? That's the whole point. Where do you think the name comes from? If you think men need to fight for their rights, then do it, instead of complaining how evil feminists aren't fighting for men's rights.

It's easy to sound like you have a point when you quote one little snippet and remove it entirely from context. That, along with all the words surrounding it, explained my point.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Note that the Elite is composed primarily of men.

Not really of any relevance to the vast majority of men that it doesn't include though.

 

[Senethro]

Not really of any relevance to the vast majority of men that it doesn't include though.

Counterpoint: The Republican party. Voted for by men to interfere in the uteri of women.

 

[Senethro]

Another counterpoint: All men passively benefit from men being widely accepted in leadership roles and having authority. Also X thousands of years of history, role models etc

 

[Perfection]

Not really of any relevance to the vast majority of men that it doesn't include though.

1. Actually it's quite relevant because they're men not women.
2. You missed my second point that women have historically been oppressed by both elite men and ordinary men.

 

[Narz]

I don't really think saving women and children first is a "women are more valuable" thing, but that "women are fragile and men need to protect them" thing.

It's likely a strong evolutionary impulse. In a disaster with mass deaths the tribe can survive if there are, say, ten women who survive & one man whereas ten men & one woman it can't (unless they kidnap other women into the tribe). Men are expendable threats to other men, women are precious reproductive resources.

To take to a ridiculous extreme, you could kill all the men on the planet save one & he could repopulate the planet (albeit with an extreme loss of diversity) whereas if all women died but one we'd be in big trouble.

These threads always say so much more about many of the participants than the ostensible subject.

What does it say when someone comments in a thread about what the thread says about everyone else posting?

 

[Narz]

Alternatively, work with feminists whom believe patriarchy is also harming men, especially in terms of mental health stigma, victims of molestation and rape, culture of masculinity harming men in terms of making them need to conform to certain expected ideas etc.

I think the word itself confuses people though. As you pointed out there are a lot of men facing their own issues (especially sensitive males who actually give a damn about gender issues & try extra hard to be sensitive while having to bear the burden of guilt for the sins of their sex) & most probably don't realize that most feminists care about issues facing both sexes (perhaps most women don't realize that about feminists either).

It has an image problem. Like PETA, good cause, much terrible PR (as Dawgphood001 pointed out). The name itself is likely part of it, suggesting exclusivity.

 

[Perfection]

Maybe one should actually look at actual facts about [wiki]women and children first[/wiki]

 

[Narz]

So the policy was not always followed at sea (perhaps because most sailors are men). Doesn't really change my theory.

 

[useless]

Who needs facts when there's MISANDRY

*tips fedora* m'lady i am feeling quite euphoric at this moment