FF 0.43 Bug Thread

[JAMiAM]

FF 0.43, Game started under patch D, playing Dural.

Game hangs indefinitely after ending turn on turn 237, with the spinning globe cursor, and the "Waiting for other civilizations" still active. Other civ units go through their movements, and you can scroll, or click through, in the map, but it never gets finished with the waiting.

Save game attached.

 

[Sarisin]

Loyalty now works as advertized, they die instead of going Barbarian. It is a small side-effect of code placed to prevent exploiting Burning Blood and other such "Chance to Betray" functions in a game with Barbarians disabled.

So, is that true when the Avatar of Wrath comes on AC 90?

If so, that really takes the steam out of his appearance as he will get zero followers turned to barb units.

It's funny how this evolved (in FFH anyway).

First, the Avatar would get a percentage of living units.

Then, I think it was a percentage of all units.

Then, the Avatar's arrival gave a percentage of units the Enraged promotion. For the AI, this meant lost units as they turned. To the saavy human player Loyalty allowed you to keep your units.

Now, in FF it appears that AC 90 will have a similar effect as AC 100 as a percentage of units are killed off due to getting the Enraged promotion.

Somewhere the poor Avatar of Wrath is sobbing knowing he will have to go it solo like his buddies the Horsemen.

 

[xienwolf]

Shouldn't affect the Avatar really. The units which die instead of converting are ones which in base FfH would just never convert and always have a nifty bonus to their strength because of enraged.

 

[MaxAstro]

Loyalty now works as advertized, they die instead of going Barbarian. It is a small side-effect of code placed to prevent exploiting Burning Blood and other such "Chance to Betray" functions in a game with Barbarians disabled.

I think this seriously hurts Loyalty. Before I knew Loyalty prevented chance to go barbarian, it pretty much felt like a worthless spell. With that feature, it is a quite important spell in certain circumstances.

Now that it's been removed... Well, I don't view it as a "small side effect", but as killing one of the major features of that spell.

 

[xienwolf]

It is somewhat of a tough issue balance-wise, should a level 1 spell be able to make Burning Blood, Enraged, Crazed, and all other "Chance to go Barbarian" promotions have NO downside anymore?


Maybe if it was re-designed so that the Loyalty promotion was lost instead of death/converting? Then you have to cast it on them again, but you don't lose a unit (and there is upkeep required to balance the otherwise VERY nice stats offered by the promotions with a chance to turn)

 

[Demus]

about the haunted lands: redactors turn every square in a 1 tile radius around them into haunted lands, but not the square they're standing on. Doesn't seem necessary for balance reasons, but makes the micro part quite annoying.

 

[Tarquelne]

about the haunted lands: redactors turn every square in a 1 tile radius around them into haunted lands, but not the square they're standing on

I'm not seeing that.

What sort of terrain was the Redactor on?
For balance reasons floodplains aren't changed, and forests/jungles of all sorts get a resistance roll.

 

[Tarquelne]

It is somewhat of a tough issue balance-wise, should a level 1 spell be able to make Burning Blood, Enraged, Crazed, and all other "Chance to go Barbarian" promotions have NO downside anymore?

That's something I never liked about Loyalty - one of the reasons I'd generally play with "restricted" mana (every civ gets its initial 3 + 2 more of choice, + whatever it can scrounge via trade or from U. Improvements.).

Maybe if it was re-designed so that the Loyalty promotion was lost instead of death/converting? Then you have to cast it on them again,

How about Loyalty giving a *chance* not to turn barbarian? A good one, but no guarantee. Less micro (and I don't see needing to re-do the spell as much of a limit), and more interesting IMO.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm still really hoping that Xienwolf will add a mechanism to track the unit's original owner (similar to the summon tracking mechanism, or to the mechanic Dom Pedro made for Conqueror's Delight) and then remove the Loyalty promotion, making the Loyalty spell instead convert units that switched sides back to their original civ's control. That way you would still lose the unit and the unit might kill some other units before you could get to it and cast Loyalty, but it would also have a chance to let you regain control of Dominated units. (I'd probably then either move it up a level or make it rather resistible.)

I also think that promotions should be able to have a chance to make a unit return to its original owner the same way they can turn barb. (Actually, it might be appropriate for the loyalty spell not to change but for the Loyalty promotion to make the unit return to you eventually instead of stopping the initial betrayal.) Similarly, tag that makes a promotion give a chance to join some random nearby civ would be good too.

The ability to change the original owner in python could be useful too. Since I always bring the old Summon Chaos Marauder back I would want to make sure that the summon's "original owner" was the barbarian state and that Loyalty couldn't make these chaotic demons return to serve their summoners. (I'm not quite sure, but did the master-slave summon system mess this up? I'm thinking that it makes summons die when they are of a different civ than their summoner, which I really don't like. Also, I think I'd like it better if units with a chance to turn barb would turn barb instead of dieing when their duration is up. I believe that both of those changes are simple enough for me to do myself, but I'm not sure it is worth compiling a new DLL just for those.)

------------

Was liberating colonies purposefully disabled?

 

[carnivore]

Will there be a fix to haunted lands ? because now it seems to be slowing the game, making it a very laggy game...

So will it be included in the E patch ?

 

[Demus]

I'm not seeing that.
What sort of terrain was the Redactor on?
For balance reasons floodplains aren't changed, and forests/jungles of all sorts get a resistance roll.

my version of FF already seems to be pretty messed up, but you can see on this screeny, 3 of the tiles my redactor was on.
-The forested tile to the right
-The quarried artifact on the left
-The forested tile at the top

oh, and by the way: you may want to have another look at the implacable promo (the one available at combat 4). The combo of additional first strikes, and returning to full health the next turn no matter what you do, makes sure i never have to worry about military past early game, 2 velites upgraded to the hunter equivalent can win the game easily enough.

 

[Tarquelne]

Will there be a fix to haunted lands ? because now it seems to be slowing the game, making it a very laggy game...

Still trying to get a fix on whether it's a python or graphics slow-down. Or both...

oh, and by the way: you may want to have another look at the implacable promo (the one available at combat 4).

Change already slated for the next patch. (There's an "Implacable" thread around here somewhere if you want to see the discussion.)

Re: HL generation":

You can't cast on HL plots - for the AI's beneft, could probably make than an "if.human" statement - but try it again when directly on the forests. It may take multiple tries.

For the quarry - Hmm... there may be an edge-of-map bug. Thanks.

 

[westamastaflash]

Monks are not getting the Purity or Focus promotions when they stay in a city with an Abbey. Are these random? Or what?

Edit - Never mind. The promotions require a minimum lvl of 4 / 6.

 

[Tarquelne]

Whoops, missed one:

Edit: Also is Korrina following the Black path supposed to be immortal like the Dark council? She died in combat and did not resurrect

Nope - Only the Red path Korrina, and then only after Fanaticism.

The weird costs you saw is likely linked to a known (as of a few days ago) bug and should be fixed in the next patch.

And I should give a straight answer on something else:

Becoming Undead is part of the "Headless" promo.

 

[Vehem]

Monks are not getting the Purity or Focus promotions when they stay in a city with an Abbey. Are these random? Or what?

Edit - Never mind. The promotions require a minimum lvl of 4 / 6.

Aye - the level display text disappeared somewhere along the line. Xien has it fixed for Patch E.

 

[xienwolf]

Was liberating colonies purposefully disabled?

Not intentionally by us. If it is enabled just fine in base FfH, then it is something which went wrong in the code.

 

[Sarisin]

What am I doing wrong with the Scions Aldcinius (sp?)?

In my first two games as Scions I didn't have a clue. I didn't know to send him immediately to another city to build the keep. I did this in my third game.

Then, like a middle linebacker shadowing a running back, I assigned one of the Stooges to watch him.

The first three times he turned barb, his Shadow killed him and brought him back into the city. However, the fourth time he killed him and this time he is gone.

Where did he go? What did I do wrong? What happens now when I get the other Scion heroes? Do I have to track him down on a Huge map infested with barbs?

I have to say except for this, the third time is a charm and the Scions have become my favorite civ to play!

 

[Sarisin]

Shouldn't affect the Avatar really. The units which die instead of converting are ones which in base FfH would just never convert and always have a nifty bonus to their strength because of enraged.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. I guess I would have to play into a game where the AC advances to 90.

Normally, when the AC hits 90 a percentage of units (40%?) get the Enraged promotion. As we all know, it then becomes not a matter of if, but when they go barb. With the AI this means they lose those units eventually. However, in FFH the human player can use the Loyalty spell to prevent this from happening and keep the units.

If Loyalty doesn't do anything and units die rather than go barb, it just seems to me that over time all the units on the map that have Enraged will die.

Could you please explain so I know what to expect viz a viz the differences of AC 90 in FF?

Thanks from one of the dopey ones.

 

[Tarquelne]

Where did he go? What did I do wrong? What happens now when I get the other Scion heroes? Do I have to track him down on a Huge map infested with barbs?

It's hard to say.
Nothing.
Nothing that dramatic.
Yes.

Or, put another way:
Pedia:

The story goes that Alcinus would have been one of Kylorin's students, but was rejected for two reasons. First, Alcinus is of such great potential that even the great Kylorin was forced to know envy. Second, Alcinus is completely, irretrievably, and violently mad.

If Alcinus turns on the Emperor or his Regent - and he will - the only course is hunting him down and destroying him. The rest will calm him, wiping his mind of the delusions and fears that led to his last break. But after a short period of total amnesia, paranoia and severe anablephobia he'll be ready to work for the good of the Scions. Or maybe someone else - he gets confused. It's the headahces. Alcinus may be upgraded all the way to Archmage level. The Imperial Apparat, however, discourages him from gathering greater power. With an axe, if necessary.

Finally, to actually explain:

Alcinus may defect to another civilization after being killed. He'll go to the Scions more often than most, but it's pretty random (33% + 1/civs% is the chance he'll return.) When he's with another civ he'll still eventually go barbarian and probably get killed again, giving you (and everyone else) another chance to get him.

A future version, btw, will give you more reasons to actually want him around. The next version will probably include an ability for Emperor's Daggers making him relatively easy to track down.

I have to say except for this, the third time is a charm and the Scions have become my favorite civ to play!

Great!

 

[hiphopin]

WAIT!!!!!!!!! Loyalty KILLS the unit now???? Loyalty was the ONLY reason I would ever use mutate or build Lunatics. Now that that part of it is gone what am I supposed to do now?