FfH2 0.14 Cosmetic Issues

[Frozen-Vomit]

Some minor things I noticed in my last game:

- Genesis causes a dark(er) area on the mini-map

- Genesis plants trees on all peaks? Seems quite useless and looks wierd

- As taverns require breweries and breweries require rivers (should be changed to fresh water in my opinion) it would be nice to have taverns also require rivers. Then they wouldn't clutter build lists in cities where they can never be built anyway.

- Meteors can be blesses (with the order spell.)

 

[Kael]

Some minor things I noticed in my last game:

- Genesis causes a dark(er) area on the mini-map

Im not sure how to change this.

- Genesis plants trees on all peaks? Seems quite useless and looks wierd

K, fixed.

- As taverns require breweries and breweries require rivers (should be changed to fresh water in my opinion) it would be nice to have taverns also require rivers. Then they wouldn't clutter build lists in cities where they can never be built anyway.

I removed the requirement.

- Meteors can be blesses (with the order spell.)

Yeap, you can bless anything except undead and demons. I figure if RL priests can bless their putter's, we can bless fireballs.

 

[QES]

And let us not forget the ever blessed holy hand granade.
-Qes

 

[BeefontheBone]

Did that tree fix fix the ones that show up on peaks when you build a Nature node too?

 

[Kael]

Did that tree fix fix the ones that show up on peaks when you build a Nature node too?

Hmm, nope.

Though Im considering removing the effects on mana node upgrades. Im not sure I like them, what do you guys think?

 

[Sureshot]

i think they're great, especially like how you have to suffer to get fire nodes, makes it feel like you earn it more (i was surprised tho when all the land turned to desert, might be good to mention it in the description for making a fire node)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I like them. Fallout is rare otherwise, this makes life a bit more useful. Fire is dangerous, and rightly so for its power. Nature is, well, exactly what one would expect, and works well with the spells it provides. I'd add, as someone mentioned somewhere, water functions as freshwater for health and irrigation. Maybe mind could make any units nearby enraged or crazed. Entropy destroys any improvements. Death kills any forrests. (perhaps even providing the shield bonus to the nearest city to compensate.) Earth mana turns into a hill. (but not a mountian, please.) more possibly, but pizzas here.

 

[Sureshot]

it might be nice to remove the Adepts ability to build nodes like workers, and instead make it an ability that consumes them, which they can use outside their borders (and consequently, you could go up to a pure mana node in enemy territory and make them a fire node just to mess up their land lol)

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Wow, Kael, looks like we're alone here. I think the node effects would be great if they were at least a little bit balanced, but having some penalize and others give awesome bonuses seems like a little too much for me. Maybe we could brainstorm effects for them somewhere.

 

[TheCowSaysMoooo]

I'm with Kael and Chandrasekhar. The idea is cool, but in practice it seems pretty haphazard and (especially in the case of fire) occasionally annoying.

 

[Kael]

Hmm.. in situations like this I usually turn to Woodelf. Mostly because I think he plays more often, and more varied mods than anyone else on the team so he is usually an excellent judge of what is more fun.

*paging Mr Woodelf, please pick up the blue courtsey phone*

 

[Sareln]

Throwing in the .02$ I like the effects, but most definitely have a heads up in the tool display or something to let the player know of the impending desertification (do this on a node in the middle of the jungle, it's funny).

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Agree on the tool tip. And perhaps AI help, they can be suicidal with fire mana. Hypothetically, that effect could be quite useful on tundra based mana, if you also had a water adept to fix it up afterwards.
Perhaps it could be toned down abit to a 50% on each tile.

 

[vorshlumpf]

As someone who is neurotic about terra-forming and improving the land, the effects of the mana nodes detract from my enjoyment of the game overall (but just a smidgeon). However, I do like the flavour it adds . . . I'm kinda on the fence.

On this topic, the AI will definitely need to be taught to deal appropriately with any such side-effects. It would be near-crippling for some sucker AI to build a fire or entropy node on mana that appears within his capital's city radius.

- Niilo

 

[woodelf]

Hmm.. in situations like this I usually turn to Woodelf. Mostly because I think he plays more often, and more varied mods than anyone else on the team so he is usually an excellent judge of what is more fun.

*paging Mr Woodelf, please pick up the blue courtsey phone*

The effects are incredible, in theory, but as a player when they happen to you they suck honestly. Watching your perfectly terraformed land revert to a desert kills my fun. And that's what keep me playing. Everyday I ask the question, "Is this fun?" When the answer becomes no, then you stop playing.

But that's just half of the overall equation since as a playtester I'm more concerned with how the AI deals with these situations then with whether or not I'm having fun. And when in doubt K.I.S.S when it comes to the AI. Watching them get hamstrung because of a Fire node might be good as a player since it can cripple them, but as a tester it's a bug and needs to be squashed.

I vote remove the effects, at least until they can be tempered.

 

[Kael]

The effects are incredible, in theory, but as a player when they happen to you they suck honestly. Watching your perfectly terraformed land revert to a desert kills my fun. And that's what keep me playing. Everyday I ask the question, "Is this fun?" When the answer becomes no, then you stop playing.

But that's just half of the overall equation since as a playtester I'm more concerned with how the AI deals with these situations then with whether or not I'm having fun. And when in doubt K.I.S.S when it comes to the AI. Watching them get hamstrung because of a Fire node might be good as a player since it can cripple them, but as a tester it's a bug and needs to be squashed.

I vote remove the effects, at least until they can be tempered.

I think you are right. I love the idea of nodes having some sort of effect depending what they are made into, but this isn't it. We will have to think about what to do with them. For 0.15, the effects of the fire, entropy and nature nodes will be removed.

 

[QES]

I think you are right. I love the idea of nodes having some sort of effect depending what they are made into, but this isn't it. We will have to think about what to do with them. For 0.15, the effects of the fire, entropy and nature nodes will be removed.

For versions beyond .15 why not some sort of random map alteration that does not deal directly with civ territory? Much like how barbarians only spawn in "unseen terrain" perhaps "node effects" would ALWAYS take place outside of ANY civ's boarders. Thusly shaping the landscape in interesting and Magical ways.

Fire nodes could create a small chance of a volcano appearing in the ocean - and consequently more land squares.

The nature node Might spawn an ancient forest (ancient forests should be able to grow, like normal forests if they dont already)

Entropy nodes Could delete features - moving toward ice/desert tiles.

Water nodes could destroy coastline (more water).

Earth nodes could creak peaks and hills.

Ice nodes (when available) could cool the temprature of the world down.
Sun nodes heat the world up.

In general all of these "Changes" could be restricted to "outside of boarders" thusly keeping it fun - The world changes according to what mana is tapped. But not immediatly annoying (destroying my precious lands).
-Qes

 

[woodelf]

I think you are right. I love the idea of nodes having some sort of effect depending what they are made into, but this isn't it. We will have to think about what to do with them. For 0.15, the effects of the fire, entropy and nature nodes will be removed.

Good. Feel free to use the elf-signal whenever you need me.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

A very (very) minor suggestion:

Could you sort the civic options that they reflect the new tech tree.

For instance: Switch the position of agriculture and conquest because you will nearly always have it before warfare.

 

[Kael]

A very (very) minor suggestion:

Could you sort the civic options that they reflect the new tech tree.

For instance: Switch the position of agriculture and conquest because you will nearly always have it before warfare.

Sure, will do.