FfH2 0.21 Balance Feedback

[QES]

You enjoy selective quoting, don't you?

As for the rest of your post... Their are plenty of atheists/agnostics/non-fans of organized religion around the world. I don't buy your "it is hard to find such people" comment, as most people I know are like that. Furthermore, this argument supports my point that settlers should spread religion...

Second of all, please provide me with just one example of settlers coming from a religious society and founding a non-religious city. Just one.

Third, as I said earlier, you are still confusing realism with plausibility.

Alright I've had enough. At this point these arguments are only barely civil. I am all for debate and discussion, but I'm seeing insults hurled and underlying hostility grow. Everyone needs to respect one another, please.

Teasing is fun - but outright dismissal and devaluation of another persons opinions and thoughts needs to be curtailed. I ask that we remember that this is a game - and different people like it for different reasons. FFH2 is such a great modification of that game that everyone has hopes and dreams that their particular brand of play style and thoughts on fantasy will be implemented. I understand that, but please, let us be civil to one another, in both the letter and the spirit of that meaning. I don't care if you "technically" didn't say something or other - I can read between the lines, and I know where those types of conversations go on forums.

Peace - brothers and sisters,
-Qes

 

[Kael]

Yeah, thanks QES, I agree 100%. We are all friends here enjoying our favorite hobby together. Please agree to disagree respectfully with others.

 

[QES]

Yeah, thanks QES, I agree 100%. We are all friends here enjoying our favorite hobby together. Please agree to disagree respectfully with others.

I'm like the ghost of the forum - come in to spook the rabble back in line.
-Qes

 

[Kael]

I'm like the ghost of the forum - come in to spook the rabble back in line.
-Qes

You shoudl swing by the building community pedia entries thread. We have to have at least one QES entry in the mix.

 

[Go Boks]

Apparently, your psychologist still has a lot of work to do...

 

[onedreamer]

@Go Boks
Since as QES pointed out it's useless to argue on opinions, fact is, what you propose had been implemented in the most used mods for Vanilla (for example Sevomod) and later removed. Why is that so, in your opinion ?

I'd be more willing to discuss on the Altar victory, if anyone wants to comment my proposal...

 

[Go Boks]

Why is that so, in your opinion ?

I think it is because those mods spread it far too often. They did not have the benefit of units only getting the religious promotion ~25% of the time, IIRC. I think that is crucial, otherwise I would be against it like you.

If your religion spreads to your cities automatically/for free once you have completed your initial wave of missionary work, it would be too much of a benefit. However, with a balanced chance of free religion spread, it gives just enough of an incentive for people to build missionaries instead of military units earlier on in the game as it becomes an investment in potentially not having to do so later on in the game. I like it when people are given reasons to divert from pumping out military units all the time.

I also like the fact that people might get a settler with a religion they don't like, and then they have to decide what to do with that unit. Would help make CotD a little better if nothing else.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

If memory serves, the chance of getting any specific religious promotion is never more that 20%, requiring a temple (and maybe also state religion) to get that high. The chances go up significantly if a city has a temple to every religion, but most of these promotions would be unwanted. Of course, priest and such units as always start with them will have them regardless and the promos are mutually exclusive.

I think everyone here would be opposed to the idea if all the settlers started with the promotions or if they always spread state religion. No one has proposed that.

 

[Blakmane]

Maybe we could tie this mechanic into one of the religious civics? The one on the god-king/city states line is quite underused atm.

 

[uberfish]

Hmm, theocracy may feel a bit underused, but that's because the economic bonuses from god-king, city states, and aristocracy are good enough that people feel they're too much of a sacrifice to run it on a permanent basis. Same reason vassalage doesn't get used much in vanilla. However it's still a good military civic, especially since promotions are more powerful in FFH than vanilla.

It's well balanced compared to Economy civic line, where there is no decision; it's always right to get agriculture early and stay there the entire game unless you are Ljosalfar/Fellowship.

 

[QES]

Apparently, your psychologist still has a lot of work to do...

My particular brand of crazy is infectious, as such professionals get hazard pay - and none are particularly interested in dealing with those levels of hazards.

If you need proof, I'm sure one of my merry band of followers is still lurking around here on this forum - having been infected by my threadjackery.

Be well,
-Qes

 

[.SinClaire.]

teehee...

 

[onedreamer]

If memory serves, the chance of getting any specific religious promotion is never more that 20%, requiring a temple (and maybe also state religion) to get that high. The chances go up significantly if a city has a temple to every religion, but most of these promotions would be unwanted. Of course, priest and such units as always start with them will have them regardless and the promos are mutually exclusive.

I think everyone here would be opposed to the idea if all the settlers started with the promotions or if they always spread state religion. No one has proposed that.

So in the end what would it add to the game ?
- Realism ? Looks like not -to me.
- Strategy ? None.
- Unwanted religions in cities ? Looks like not again. How can religions be unwanted, when they give mostly boni ?

I can't catch the point.

 

[eerr]

So in the end what would it add to the game ?
- Realism ? Looks like not -to me.
- Strategy ? None.
- Unwanted religions in cities ? Looks like not again. How can religions be unwanted, when they give mostly boni ?

I can't catch the point.

you're right... it's just a fluff idea...
maybe if the settler gets cod and for no other reason

 

[Go Boks]

So in the end what would it add to the game ?
- Realism ? Looks like not -to me.
- Strategy ? None.
- Unwanted religions in cities ? Looks like not again. How can religions be unwanted, when they give mostly boni ?

I can't catch the point.

On points one and two, those are both your opinion, on which I happen to disagree.

On point three, religions can very easily be unwanted. CotD is usually unwanted. AV and Order are usually not wanted when the other is your state religion. If an enemy has the holy city, their religion may be unwanted. Don't take this as an insult, but the fact that you missed all that leads me to believe you are hardly capable of commenting on point two.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

On point three, religions can very easily be unwanted. CotD is usually unwanted. AV and Order are usually not wanted when the other is your state religion. If an enemy has the holy city, their religion may be unwanted. Don't take this as an insult, but the fact that you missed all that leads me to believe you are hardly capable of commenting on point two.

I agree that religions can be unwanted, with a couple caveats--
By the time religions get founded, you aren't building settlers much, and if a religion was that unwanted, people would just disband the settlers that started with that promotion.

 

[onedreamer]

On points one and two, those are both your opinion, on which I happen to disagree.

On point three, religions can very easily be unwanted. CotD is usually unwanted. AV and Order are usually not wanted when the other is your state religion. If an enemy has the holy city, their religion may be unwanted. Don't take this as an insult, but the fact that you missed all that leads me to believe you are hardly capable of commenting on point two.

On point one, we already discussed it, and it didn't seem like we could come to any agreement, so I would say it's a personal feel -not just MY opinion- . Anyways how seriously is realism looked after in this mod ?
On point two, if you disagree, can you please elaborate ?
On point 3. CotD can only be founded by 2 civs, in most of my games it's missing, and even when it's present it doesn't spread much compared to all other religions. Yeah, it can be unwanted... but are you hot on this matter only because of CotD ? I think the staff will work on it later with better means... AV and Order don't seem to be a problem to me. If you have Order as State Religion, then you probably won't have AV in most of your cities, and vice versa. You can just avoid building settlers there or delete settlers with opposing religion promotion, use a priest to found a temple, etc etc. It would be more a nuisance than a real strategic addition IMO.
Btw, are you able to write one post without being so aggressive or thinking you're the ultimate strategist of the forum ?

 

[Go Boks]

You are obviously completely unwilling to listen to anyone else, so I'm not going to bother responding any more...

That last comment was uncalled for.

 

[Kael]

Both of you are trying to help the mod by offering to create and refine ideas. The ironic part is that by engaging in personal attacks and not respecting others opinions you are damaging this forum and peoples ability to create and refine ideas (not to a major degree, this is by far the most positive internet community I have ever been a part of).

In a forum if someone says something that offends you the best thing you can do is to ignore it. Internet fights have no winner, but the forum always loses.

Please resist the urge to attack others. Some people will simply always hold a different opinion than you, now matter how strongly you feel about it or how obvious you feel your point is. Accept that they have a differing opinion and move on.

If you feel like your ideas aren't being considered or used the only person you should be mad at is me. I have no problem with anyone being mad because I don't use their ideas, I just ask that if you feel the need to share that anger with me you do it in a PM instead of on the forum.

 

[Mithrus]

Are there plans to add coastal improvements or techs to help out the Lanun (and coastal cities in general)? I would like to see some way to add hammers specifically to water tiles, such as floating workshops etc. Fewer risks of fire causing collateral damage

P.S. Sorry for the cross post, but I realized too late my post in .22 should have gone here.