It wouldn't fit very well, since the Over- and Undercouncils are religious assemblies.
FfH2 0.34 Change log
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Kael
Deity
Actually we went the other way with it. Agnostic leaders aren't blocked form learning Honor/Deception anymore. We liked this option better because there are other benefits from these techs other than just the religions.
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,022
I know the idea is to give the Malakim some incentive to keep and maybe even spread desert, which is supposed to be their native terrain, but I don't know if this is going to be enough. Seems to me a Malakim player will want to upgrade the terrain ASAP and either farm or cottage it.
The extra commerce on desert tiles might give them a slight early game boost, but that'll depend on how many desert tiles in their BFC they're able to work.
I guess we'll have to see how this plays out in the new version and give you our feedback.
Love
Deity
But flooded desert give an awesome food start.
Ambreville
Deity
Couldn't they get more food and hammers from Oases? Perhaps they could create an oasis as long as there isn't another within a certain range (a bit like the pirates' coves). It would then make sense to found a city near an oasis.
In my experience, though, Rangers and Beastmasters getting it for free was a bit useless, since by the time you get them the animals are gone anyway. Or does my playstyle just underemphasize the recon line?
[to_xp]Gekko;7320042 said:a couple things that would be totally awesome if they were in 0.34: so, pretty please with sugar
1) when you double-click on a stack that has an hawk in it, the hawk is selected instead of the whole stack. :\
Late at night, when I'm tired, I've disbanded my hawks specifically for this reason, it can be such a PITN!
This would be a great change! In the back of my mind, I think of switching to Empyrean to get the Guards so I don't need the hawks specifically for this reason!
I have found if I click on the first unit in the stack and then hit <ALT> I can indeed select the stack instead of the hawk, though.
Best wishes,
Breunor
ichbinsehselber
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2005
- Messages
- 331
Looking at the changelog of 0.34 makes me smile! This looks like another big piece of playing fun ahead! Many new features will make the mod even more interesting!
Without knowing just from their looks, the 2 items below seem to give opportunity to exploit and might be unbalanced:
47. Added War equipment (Buboes sword, +3 unholy strength and +1 to the AC for every living unit killed).
Maybe not such a big problem in single player mode but in multiple player mode it could allow a "fake war" to drive up the AC counter
12. Added the Stasis spell (Illian world spell, all other players have production and research disabled for 20 turns modified by game speed).
This seems extremely powerful. (Stops wonder production, world hero production, unit production, etc...)
Without knowing just from their looks, the 2 items below seem to give opportunity to exploit and might be unbalanced:
47. Added War equipment (Buboes sword, +3 unholy strength and +1 to the AC for every living unit killed).
Maybe not such a big problem in single player mode but in multiple player mode it could allow a "fake war" to drive up the AC counter
12. Added the Stasis spell (Illian world spell, all other players have production and research disabled for 20 turns modified by game speed).
This seems extremely powerful. (Stops wonder production, world hero production, unit production, etc...)
Will agnostic leaders be able to found the religions from those two techs?
Nor'easter
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,022
Earlier in the thread someone suggested that the Stasis spell should have a tech requirement, otherwise the Illians can cast on the first turn and get a 20-turn head start on everybody else.
To encourage the Malakim to keep their desert tiles, and better work with his Financial trait, maybe the bonus should either be + 2 commerce on desert tiles or lower the minimum on Financial from needing +2 commerce to be effective down to +1 commerce.
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
@Kael: ok, I see your point about the "capture animal/beast" thingy now, thanx for explaining.
I'm gonna have to go with Nor'easter and Nimbus about the Malakim, I'm really eager to try them out in 0.34 to see how much of an incentive they have for keeping deserts around. seems to me that giving them a +1 food on deserts and letting them build some improvements ( cottages, farms with irrigation, mines/windmills on hills, watermills on rivers ) on them would be nice.
did anyone say +1food from tundra for the doviello btw?
I'm gonna have to go with Nor'easter and Nimbus about the Malakim, I'm really eager to try them out in 0.34 to see how much of an incentive they have for keeping deserts around. seems to me that giving them a +1 food on deserts and letting them build some improvements ( cottages, farms with irrigation, mines/windmills on hills, watermills on rivers ) on them would be nice.
did anyone say +1food from tundra for the doviello btw?
kumquatelvis
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2007
- Messages
- 310
Maybe +1 commerce on desserts, with an additional plus one from techs that increase cottage output?
Keeper_GFA
Prince
I hope you've changed the requirements for the Subdue Beasts promotion, because right now it requires the Hero promotion. So if Beastmasters don't get it for free, then only Recon Heroes will ever be able to learn it. (I think only Alazkan and Rathus)
Kael
Deity
I think we have a core design difference here. Some people believe that a lot of the civs should have an ideal terrain that is best for them. The Doviello should prefer tundra, the malakim should prefer deserts, the illians should prefer snow, the lanun should prefer coasts, the ljosalfar should prefer forests, the khazad should prefer hills, etc etc.
We do build synergy's between some civs and some terrain and it would be really easy to create similiar bonuses for everyone. But I have no desire to do this. In my mind its boring and lazy design.
I want these civs to be special, but I want them to special in different ways. The Doviello are a little better in Tundra than other civs, but that doesnt mean they would rather live in the tundras than a nice fertile grassland with a river running through it and some hills to mine.
The Malakim may get along a little better in the desert than most, but they arent going to pass up that same fertile valley the Doviello are eyeing for their best cities.
I want contention for the best areas of the map, I want starting location to matter and Im fine with some AI civs dying off because they had a bad start location. Because the opposite of that is that some civs will do really well because of particuarly good starting location.
The Malakim may be a bit more of a challenge with the Erebus mapscript because it tends to start you in deserts, thats okay, welcome to the world of the Malakim. The Doviello may start off in rough tundra while their neighbors inhabit better areas, maybe its time to go take some of those areas.
I like trying to pull a little flavor into the civs through some gameplay mechanics. Thats what the malakim +1 commerce on desert tundra is, thats what the doviello combat bonus on tundra is. I dont want different civs to ultimately prefer different terrains. But Im okay with different civs having advantages in certain terrains.
The illians are probably as strongly tied to a terrain as anyone and needed the +2 food from snow tiles just because we wanted them to have a terrain transform ability to contrast the infernals. But to do that they needed an ability to survive in those tiles. The Illians still do well in normal tiles. But once they get that temple built they have pretty much ruined the land for anyone else.
Yeap, it requires a few combat levels (i dont remember how many off the top of my head) but technically a scout could learn subdue beasts now.
We do build synergy's between some civs and some terrain and it would be really easy to create similiar bonuses for everyone. But I have no desire to do this. In my mind its boring and lazy design.
I want these civs to be special, but I want them to special in different ways. The Doviello are a little better in Tundra than other civs, but that doesnt mean they would rather live in the tundras than a nice fertile grassland with a river running through it and some hills to mine.
The Malakim may get along a little better in the desert than most, but they arent going to pass up that same fertile valley the Doviello are eyeing for their best cities.
I want contention for the best areas of the map, I want starting location to matter and Im fine with some AI civs dying off because they had a bad start location. Because the opposite of that is that some civs will do really well because of particuarly good starting location.
The Malakim may be a bit more of a challenge with the Erebus mapscript because it tends to start you in deserts, thats okay, welcome to the world of the Malakim. The Doviello may start off in rough tundra while their neighbors inhabit better areas, maybe its time to go take some of those areas.
I like trying to pull a little flavor into the civs through some gameplay mechanics. Thats what the malakim +1 commerce on desert tundra is, thats what the doviello combat bonus on tundra is. I dont want different civs to ultimately prefer different terrains. But Im okay with different civs having advantages in certain terrains.
The illians are probably as strongly tied to a terrain as anyone and needed the +2 food from snow tiles just because we wanted them to have a terrain transform ability to contrast the infernals. But to do that they needed an ability to survive in those tiles. The Illians still do well in normal tiles. But once they get that temple built they have pretty much ruined the land for anyone else.
Yeap, it requires a few combat levels (i dont remember how many off the top of my head) but technically a scout could learn subdue beasts now.
Psycho_Ivan
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 218
Seems to me like that +1 Commerce for the Malakim is gonna be a big advantage... And if you consider it, where in the heck would they find food in the desert, enough so to actually sustain a growing population? doesn't much help them.
Ideally when you build a city in the Desert you take advantage of the rivers running through it. For the Malakim, this is a huge boost. Flood Plain tiles already provide a nice start of 2 commerce, with Varn's Financial trait still in place he boosts this by another one-- if you put that last one on top, it's insane if you don't even bother with Farms and go for Cottages.
Ideally when you build a city in the Desert you take advantage of the rivers running through it. For the Malakim, this is a huge boost. Flood Plain tiles already provide a nice start of 2 commerce, with Varn's Financial trait still in place he boosts this by another one-- if you put that last one on top, it's insane if you don't even bother with Farms and go for Cottages.
Love
Deity
Does sanctify work on snow as it does on hell terrain?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I'm sure it would, but it wouldn't change the terrain, just zero out the plot counter to stop hell from spreading to nearby terrain.
Any chance we can get a hell version of water terrain soon, even if just the darker version used in FF.
Kael
Deity
I looked for that and it had some blending issues (straight lines between the plots with and without the "hell water") that didnt look good. Unless I was doing something wrong.
Hm, this could be fixed by introducing two hell waters, one for 'normal' hell and other for 'border' which would be softer shaded and would fit better. Just tossing ideas.
