FfH2 0.34 Change log

[Black Attila]

62. AI: the Ai is much less likely to research water based techs if it doesnt have any coastal cities.

Any new AI programming to make that AI settler walk the extra 1 or 2 hexes to place their cities on a coastal hex??? the amount of times I see an AI city 1 or 2 hexes away from the coast where it would make more sense make me want to scream, then raze it and build it in the right spot.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Any new AI programming to make that AI settler walk the extra 1 or 2 hexes to place their cities on a coastal hex??? the amount of times I see an AI city 1 or 2 hexes away from the coast where it would make more sense make me want to scream, then raze it and build it in the right spot.

Building cities a tile or two away from Rivers annoys me too.

 

[cyther]

Yeah - until Magnadine beats on one of the Horsemen, or Orthus, or any Orc, really. That just doesn't make sense.

I believe that they have loyalty or another immune to capture mechanism.

 

[GeeJo]

Yeah - until Magnadine beats on one of the Horsemen, or Orthus, or any Orc, really. That just doesn't make sense.

The Horsemen are demons, so no problem there. I can't say that I've ever seen Orthus still alive by the time that Magnadine can be built, so that's a bit of a non-issue. But even supposing that he was, what's the flavour issue with convincing orcs that they'd be better off working as mercenaries for the Hippus? Particularly if a strong leader-type like Magnadine comes along and defeats their chief in combat.

 

[orangelex44]

The Horsemen are Barbarians, it doesn't matter what race they are.

Don't you think that if the barbarians were willing to me mercenaries they'd be part of the Clan of Embers? They wouldn't want to give a human the time of day, much less allow him to fight their chief in one-on-one combat to control the tribe's warriers.

It conflicts with the Clan's Hero, too (whatever his mane is, I forget).

 

[Algeroth]

The Horsemen are Barbarians, it doesn't matter what race they are.

Don't you think that if the barbarians were willing to me mercenaries they'd be part of the Clan of Embers? They wouldn't want to give a human the time of day, much less allow him to fight their chief in one-on-one combat to control the tribe's warriers.

It conflicts with the Clan's Hero, too (whatever his mane is, I forget).

If i understand MC's code, it allows conversion of only living units. And I don't it should be easy to add it.

And why shouldn't pinkskin lead the orc hordes if he is strong enough?

 

[El_Duderino]

didnt orthus recruit humans anfter he raised their village? so i cant see why orc barbarians would mind following a human as long as they still get to burn, pillage and loot

 

[Xuenay]

Speaking of which... if you want to give Orthus some extra teeth, give him the ability to convert defeated units.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Though the Illians are likely to need some fine tuning once the release comes... The AI for Auric won't need any fixing whatsoever. He certainly understands the meaning of 'total war'.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't recall anything saying that Orthus recruited humans from among his victims to join his rank, but I do think that giving him at least Command 1 would be pretty cool.


I only proposed that Magnadine be able to convert living units (which rules out demons like the Four Horsemen and the Avatar of Wrath), like he could before. I didn't see it when I looked though the text file a little while ago, but the Hippus's description used to say that "they are equally happy partnered with orcs as they are with men as long as they get paid." Much of the tension between humans and Orks comes from the humans racism towards the monstrous looking Orks, but the Hippus have no such prejudice.

You already can hire Orkish mercenaries through a Guild of the Nine event, regardless of the civ.

I don't see how this conflicts with Rantine. Rantine seeks to civilize his fellow Orks, and is sometimes able to get their cities to join him peacefully. He is an enemy of Orthus, and doesn't think the Orks can survive if they stick with their barbarism. Magnadine is a strong leader of a tribe that isn't all that different from the Orkish barbarians, expect that they discovered that it is more profitable to get people to pay you for acting barbaric in their rivals lands. I suspect many Orks would be more comfortable with under Magnadine than under Rantine.


I'm not sure it would be appropriate for Orthus to agree to follow Magnadine, but it would be easy to make an exception for Orthus, any unit with Hero, or any unit with Loyalty.

 

[Black Attila]

Though the Illians are likely to need some fine tuning once the release comes... The AI for Auric won't need any fixing whatsoever. He certainly understands the meaning of 'total war'.

Sure, but will the Illian AI be able to use all the rituals that were made for it. Currently the AI is horrible at using any ritual except Purge The Unfaithful.

 

[Kael]

Sure, but will the Illian AI be able to use all the rituals that were made for it. Currently the AI is horrible at using any ritual except Purge The Unfaithful.

Definitly. I modified the Ai to value rituals appropriately. In fact I had to go in and turn it down because they were rushing rituals to early (natures revolt when you have warriors defending your cities is a bad idea).

 

[LordGek]

Just curious, are the Guilds being dropped at least in part since I'm assuming the AI was never that clever in using them to their full advantage?

Sorry if it is against tradition here to ask outright, but is it still set to launch tomorrow, Kael (or anybody else on the Dev Team)?

 

[kumquatelvis]

22. 4 new songs by Nox Arcana.

Hey, new music! That's cool.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Guilds were dropped because they didn't end up with any strategic purpose that can't be easily replicated with a couple wonders. They were an experiment that didn't pan out.

I'm pretty certain Kael will release tomorrow. He usually hits early, for him, but no garuntee about any time of day in particular.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Most of the tensions between humans and Orks comes from the humans racism towards the monstrous looking Orks, but the Hippus have no such prejudice.

Off-topic, but I don't think that is entirely acurate. Humans, elves, & dwarves are certainly prejudiced against orcs, but that isn't really racism. Look at the way the barbarians behave in game. Civilized tribes attitude towards orcs is a reaction to that vicious culture.

Not that humans are very forgiving or pure in any way, of course, but this isn't sheer bigotry.

 

[Darksaber1]

I don't recall anything saying that Orthus recruited humans from among his victims to join his rank, but I do think that giving him at least Command 1 would be pretty cool.

I think Orthus's (old?) entry implied he was recruiting humans from near Kwythellar. 'Course, that could just have been fanon on the old Wiki, since I can't chek the manual or civipedia right now.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I like that ideas about Orthus getting Command I, and I especially love the one about magnadine converting barbarians.

 

[onedreamer]

I thin this is a bad idea, for Orthus specifically. In my experience, Orthus is VASTLY more dangerous if he has 50-60 turns to build up XP in the wild before he goes all out attack. Back when Orthus rushed you as soon as he spawned, I never had any problem killing him with a single warrior defending a city, or two if I was unlucky.

I agree with MaxAstro, actually I thought that Orthus wandering around until he got combat 5 and the 4 hero promotions was a superb move by the dev team, certainly didn't think of it like an error

 

[Duruk]

Originally Posted by Nikis-Knight
Off-topic, but I don't think that is entirely acurate. Humans, elves, & dwarves are certainly prejudiced against orcs, but that isn't really racism. Look at the way the barbarians behave in game. Civilized tribes attitude towards orcs is a reaction to that vicious culture.

Not that humans are very forgiving or pure in any way, of course, but this isn't sheer bigotry.

I think it's a combination of both; humans, elves and dwarves hate all orcs because the ones they encountered are evil. So, even when orcs like Rantine try to make peace with them, humans just assume that the orcs aren't being sincere.
To get back to the Rantine/ Magnadine issue; these two convert the groups that would be interested in them. Rantine converts orcs that are already settled down and somewhat civilized, and thus interested in joining an orcish nation. Meanwhile, Magnadine converted orcs who were more interested in fighting things, and would be happy to join a faction of mercenaries (cause then they can get paid for doing what they loved).