Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Kael, Oct 2, 2008.
Oh, even bigger overhaul than i whould have thought. I'll wait and test before giving any opinion. Some things look like i whould really like them, others like i whould strongly dislike but have to get the feel and am likely to keep 0.33. and switch from time to time. Will surely feel utterly different in many a respect.
We'll see what replacement Guilds will get sometime later. Im sure.
Funny how the changes now seem not so much as refining the game but morely redefining it with each major version (with everything from 0.31 on beeing a very different and playable version in its own right.). A testament how polished the game allready is.
Jules.lt: Oh, that is just what has been discussed (one of many possibilites of how their affinity to deserts might be expanded). So its quite possible that it might indeed mean +1 trade-route. If some other things are added later (like trade-routes yielding a bit of food / production each, with commerce provided anyways.). Malakim might actually really stick to deserts or even expand them... And with a full route per desert that alone whould take care of the whole thing without needing to boost desert-terrain.
The cap should really be removed though then.
Also very neat that with 0.34 full terraforming back and forth (including grasslands) is sorts of possible now. If hard to get besides for Illians.
I think the Doviello should have Ice mana replace their earth palace mana.
Will an exception for the Drifa Ritual be made for games which are 1vs1 games?
2 Questions / things rather mandatory to take care of (for having them working somewhat):
first: Skelletons don't have a unit-type right now so they cant get levels at all. So they might never upgrade to spectres / wraiths. (spectres do just fine with melee.). Unless you haven't changed that allready it should be adressed. Looking forward to skelleton-summons beeing replaced by something else.
second: Subdue Bests until now requires hero-promotions as prerequisite. That should be changed.
Otherwise you whould effectively have removed that rather fun part of the game completely. (Unless thats the intention. But i sort of doubt it because it was big fun. And only 3 or so civs whould have any chance to get it at all. With the Units in question beeing rather unlikely to take it given the time it appears.)
So that should be adressed. The rest of the requirements seem allright overall because of the tech-requirement and that it can be taken to fit a niche as needed. Also provides very decent gains if rare.
Can understand the change (especially because of lairs beeing incorporated into the main-game. ) to remove subdue from free promotions but its rather hard to get the other prerequirements in a hurry. We will see if it works out. Am rather hopeful that those promotions will be more worthwhile than before as a payoff for them beeing harder to attain.
He's referring to this post earlier in the thread.
Call me stupid (Hi stupid) but I don't get what a Dalek is It is possibly something simple that I am missing...
Daleks are an evil alien species from the science-fiction series Doctor Who.
This is neat.
Well, for those who were lamenting the removal of the Guild of the Nine, lament no more, it's back!
Not to thrilled about limiting assassins, but it's probably necessary so it won't be quite so easy to pick off mages as before.
This is a terrible change, why are we doing this? Should we limit Mages to only 4 per player, and adepts too? How about priests, or scouts? Scouts are OP because they can move TWO spaces. Arggh... I can't even make a sensible argument to this because I have no idea what kind of logic would cause us to want to limit assassins.
THey are fragile, 3 defense units, that are even more fragile in cities, and roll over to a strong stack of melee units. They are good against Mages... No way? Seriously? Nerf hunters because they own Animals? This is exactly how they should work. Arcane units get free xp, and defend after their summons to every other unit type, having assassins be a foil to adepts that wander out too far is simply how it *should* work.
I don't understand either.
I never thought I'd see this phrase used outside of the World of Warcraft boards...
Good call, though I caught that recently and Kael made them melee, I think.
So, I think we really need to reevaluate this whole train of thought. We are making some cool changes to barbarian skeletons, sure, but we are also making some pretty big changes to the power of normal Death mana units.
A Melee class Skeleton, is going to turn a simple adept, with death mana, into a much much stronger character. Part of the balance of skeletons as permanent level 1 summons, is that they don't gain experience, meaning they never got to heal when promoting, and don't get better as they fight. By turning Adepts (especially sheiam adepts) into the equivalent of weaponless Axemen (or thereabouts) that can be recreated at a whim by the cast, I think we are getting much more than we bargained for.
A solution, that I think is almost as easy as changing the unit class, is to instead of checking for 'level 4' instead check for '10 experience' (the equivalent). This will allow the upgrade to a spectre (That would also then immediately get to promote a view times, making it more impressive).
This also fixes another problem: Spectres aren't strictly stronger than skeletons. A normal spectre has death affinity, giving it 4 strength when owned by a player. However, keep in mind that a barbarian spectre only has 3 strength (LESS than a skeleton). It becomes much more of a difference when that 4 strength skeleton turns into a 3 strength (2 move) spectre with +60% strength.
You'd have the discount the XP based on whether or not the leader had Charismatic as well and remember that barbarians with affinity get bonuses from every mana of that type in the world (or at least, used to).
Only barbarian skeletons upgrade, and barbarians aren't charismatic.
re:skeletons, personally I'd prefer a new unit class for misc. summoned units that can only get empower promotions upon leveling.
But we'll see if the change over-powers Sheaim or Amurites, etc. after you all get a crack at it.
Proof I should not be allowed online after 1:00 A.M. Although Darksaber is right. But back on topic...
Seconded. That, and the image of good and evil coming together to dog pile a god so they can get back to their own wars in peace. Nobody else wants Mulcarn ruling the world. Even the Sheaim and Infernals, although fundamentally evil, are opposed to the world being basically locked in unchanging, eternal winter (if only because that means they can't destroy it). Although Basium seems thick-headed enough to kill a horde of Infernals marching to stop Mulcarn's rise... actually, it may be in Auric's best interest to summon the guy as post-Draw muscle.
I must say I'm sad to see the Lanun pirate ports get nerfed again. Now they're basically Towns with 2 hammers. What was the reasoning behind the change?
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