Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Kael, Dec 8, 2008.
Yes but do they change the combat round odds for the combat?
These I approve of, for the most part (would have been nice to keep the Gallows in some form); overall they reduce the need to waste time building things that only provide one or two units.
This one makes me a bit sad to see it go. I rarely built it, but it was a cool wonder. I might re-add it for my personal use, maybe in a new form.
Hm... has it's ups and it's downs. Gridlines was very useful and I'm sad to see it go, but I like the new buildings. Still want the Velite Workshop and the one that gave Heavy back, though...
OW. Serious OW. Brewery is a very heavily used building for me; it's the reason capitals need to be next to a river, it's the best early game happy boost, and for the Dwarves it's even more important for that little bit of XP. I'm not sure why this removal was needed... couldn't the normal brewery coexist with the new national wonder?
This I like. Defensive Strike sounds like a fun mechanic that will make Archers considerably more deadly when gaurding cities and stacks. Also finally makes the Drill promotion a worthwhile choice.
These are some of my favorite changes of the whole list. Magnadine really needed something special, I've been pushing for marching barbs as a way to make them more threatening for a while, and bumping back the cutting techs will really help stop forest starts sucking, not to mention making Bronze Working more of an optional tech and less of a "Get this or you lose" tech.
This will annoy some people, but doesn't bother me overmuch. Will miss the Balseraph super-druids, though.
THANK YOU. This was needed in so many ways. Finally there's actually a reason to explore with higher level units... can't tell you how much it sucks to lose a really powerful unit to instant death. Especially when it doesn't make sense. I mean... "Just what was in that dungeon that a level 12 hero couldn't handle?"
Anyway, those are my thoughts on the changelog. I am certainly excited to see Ice finally come out, and am going to be playing the scenarios non-stop until I beat them all. ^_^
I invariably blamed it on grues. What else could make a meal of Hyborem himself, and yet not dare leave the goblin fort it was infesting?
EDIT: Also just noticed the Taunt ability. I never used Balseraph Druids before, so I'll not be missing that trick, and Taunt sounds like a perfect siege breaker.
I think the brewery was too useful and got axed for that reason, it made the grain resources far too important as they gave + 2 health and + 1 happy each, the same as the Fruit of Yggdrasil. It also forced you to build your major cities on rivers for the early happy boost. Also the extra XP was flavorful for dwarves but it made Kandros an absolute monster and was generally a boost that both dwarven civilizations didn't need. I think it's a good change.
I also wish that cottages would be moved to a first level tech or allowed to be built from the start of the game. But that's another idea for another thread.
will guilds be reintroduced at any point?
Am I the only one who's not going to notice breweries being gone? Things were bloody expensive, and by the time you have a big mature empire that can build them quickly and that has multiple grain resources, you also have public baths, religions and their buildings, etc.
The dwarves could get the same bonus with apprenticeship, and the two technically stacked but not really (4 exp doesn't get you an extra level.)
Yes, but Dwarves are designed for ROK, which grants the "arate" civic.
Arate and apperencechip are in the same category.
Add conquest though (for 6 XP) and that's level 3 out of the gate.
Er, sure they do. You are 1 xp away from level 3 instead of 3 xp, which means any combat (Even defending against a goblin in a city... not that uncommon) gives it to you.
And while breweries were a bit expensive, dwarves start with crafting, meaning they can be built before you get apprenticeship (Especially in a capital).
I'm sad because I would have liked to chop rush them not that mining becomes a significantly more valid 2nd tech (Gems in jungle, for instance, is now just bronzeworking away).
Wow, the changelog looks great.
I wasn't expecting allmost all the scenarios to be released straight away, it will be hard to choose which ones to play first.
I've got to ask why the Through the Fire scenario was changed to the Radiant Guard though...
Dragonforce's lawyers called?
Maybe it was originally going to focus on the Bannor, but then switched to a Malakim focus. We'll find out soon enough.
Khazad (or even all units starting with the Dwarven race) getting +1 or 2 XP if you have access to Ale would seem like a simple answer to the complaints about breweries, and be flavourful.
Are units that are immune to first strikes also immune to defensive strikes?
I don't base my gameplay decisions on the lore. I go with what works, whether it's thematic or not. The dwarves don't synergize all that well with RoK.
Yeah I sure love it when building military units makes my cities stop growing.
The dwarves aren't spiritual (anymore) so it's not like they can just adopt conquest for short pre-war buildup periods.
It all looks amazing I can't wait!
Not going to miss it myself...
I just noticed that the Bowyer has been removed. Where are my archers going to get that extra +2 XP now?
They'll go with your stack, and get two defensive strikes.
Quick question - Say a longbowman has the best defense in a stack, and so is the chosen defender. Does that longbowman also have a chance for a defensive strike?
They get 1xp per successful defensive strike now apparently. Which seems pretty ridiculously OP to me, as it's risk-free leveling (i.e. leveling without fighting and maybe dying), which to date has been only the province of spellcasters (infrequent and random) heroes, and vamps. We'll have to see how it plays out, but I'd imagine that 2 archers marched into barb lands and parked on top of a hill will level REALLY fast if you give 'em drill promos.
When does the need to attack trigger? How will this interact when playing on simultaneous turns vs individual turns? I make use of both so I'm rather curious.
I would have preferred that the various axed buildings be made more useful with new, flavorful abilities rather then simplifying things even further. Also gave my various military cities something to build late game other then units. Was there some feeling in the team that these buildings were unnecessary clutter or something?
When you say "(all building requirements moved to..." is that including the extra xp given from the Hippodrome and Bowyer?
That's...certainly unexpected. Are invisible golems going to be able to use fireballs without losing their invisibility?
Flavor-wise, I think it's a tad odd that the race now making the most out of invisibility are the ones specializing in making giant armies of clanking doom. Would have expected the Svartalfar of Sidar to get it as they still both seem to lack any mechanic that is in line with their subtle and sneaky nature (world spells don't count ).
Also flavor-wise, how does a sculpture's studio make a clock-work golem? This was one place in the game where a machinist shop fit perfectly and seemed like a necessary step.
Give dwarves some xp for having this. Or add back breweries. Would prefer the return of breweries more. liked that little bit of early game strategizing.
Weren't these already covered with dyes and gems? Or will these be produced by tailors and jewelers?
Is this the only way to get ale in the game or is it found in the natural world?
CRAP!!!! As if my attempts to keep high level units and heros alive without constantly reloading wasn't difficult enough. Usually I can get away with attacking at only 99.9%. Usually. First strikes have always played havoc with this. Hence why I never get drill for my heroes. Did so recently with Rosier and was reminded why I didn't as he died with a 99.9%.
So....howzabout you edit the odds machine to show the worst possible outcome? Instead of assuming that 50% of the first-strikes hit, make it assume that none of your's hit and all of their's do. If a defensive strike is in the stack, make it so that the odds assume it also hit for maximum damage.
Yeah, I'll be seeing poorer odds then I actually have, but I would prefer this than too losing even more units at what seem to be favorable odds.
Overall, looks like it will be an interesting patch. Really not to keen on all the late game building cuts, but I'll just have to see how that plays. Thanks for all your hard works guys. Can't wait to try it all out.
I'm quite stoked looking at this preview of what is to come. It looks like Ice is going to be serious fun.
One comment, is there any chance of getting Baron Halfmorn remade as a Doviello hero in the grand campaign? Thematically and in terms of balance, I think he's a perfect fit with them.
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