Yet the criteria that very few players like that civ as favorite was the explicit one (and basically only) criteria Kael cited what would spark a reason for him to give them something! nice.
And it has been proven beyond doubt that they don't appeal very much to a lot of players (in fact the numbers where near to nonexistence)
May be true. I don't know of much players that like the Doviello.
So maybe even (or especially) those players liking the Doviello should stop fervently defending that they are alright because the only chance that Kael will ever again look into that civ.
Is that really such a horrible prospect?
Do you really fear them to get overpowered one day if the team would look at them again?
We don't say they are underpowered (since Kael has dismissed that case as largely inconsequential) just that playing them is unfun especially if compared to any other civ (thats a whopping 20!).
I can see that playing them exclusively is guaranteed to be boring. And, in fact, if you look at what the Clan of Embers gets, you get a bit jealous. Nothing that the Doviello have can compare to doubled unit production.
And in FFH2, "alright" is too weak, as one of the design basics is to make everything overpowered.
So instead of seeing this as a crusade against your "beloved doviello" you should start to view our efforts as something with the ultimate goal of helping those very people who actively enjoy that civ.
And add some others to them.
If you could live! with such a thing you might actually want to stop to whitewash the issue. There is something wrong with them. That is appeal. At least. If you don't believe so, see the numbers for yourselves. They had a magin beyond any doubt. No matter of denying will get them away. Only a new poll with a different outcome might (and that whould be a sad effort indeed imo. You can get that points together by yourselves i think.).
Add longterm neglect in design-terms to that (even admitted but announced as something likely to stay thanks to feature lock.)
And it can be fixed without breaking them. Rest assured (There even had been some suggestions which Kael stated he liked).
And FFH2 would feel more complete if that lacking point would be fixed.
The only players who actually should voice there doubts are those who think that the doviello are a civ with a fine appeal that are in serious danger of getting overpowered by a small treat.
Unless you actually like to hurt your own interest / favorite civ or horribly dislike any positive change on them.
I am not fundamentally against giving the Doviello a buff, I made multiple suggestions in some other thread. And they don't have something completely unique yet, only smaller changes from vanilla. And I believe that every civ should have a completely unique mechanic. At the moment they are kind of bland, like the Elohim or Malakim.
@ Err0l: And i played them and found them abysmal (but then i am not a warmonger so they might actually be a civ which doesn't really suite my playstyle.).
So your point doesn't really stand. Also i don't like someone calling everyone elses perspective as nonexist or invalid.
Note that its shared by many which makes it highly unlikely that your point really could possibly hold any water (since there was also a poll about the least liked which the doviello clearly topped by a wide margin which indicates that quite a number of players have actively tested them and found them least to their liking.).
My post was written up slightly hastily. And it is only natural that a peacemonger can't get warm with the Doviello, like a warmonger wouldn't get warm with the Kuriotates. And, well... there are 21 civs, and everyone has favorites and "bad civs" there. And I envision that the majority of the people want to tech a bit too, which is just not as possible with the Doviello.
Don't rely too much on polls on the internet.
Kael has advertised them once as a good civ for showcasing (soft entry to smooth the learning curve.).
But given that they are so disliked and nonfavored that might actually be the worst recomendation possible
(and honestly the elves, the bannor, the orcs and especially the hippus (both leaders are stellar here) fit better by a wide margin.
Depending on the player at hand and her / his preferences.
I whould never ever reccomend someone to start with the wolf-people.
Especially not Chardaron.
Unless i really want to turn that one person off. Because the alternatives are so by miles more appealing. Which i couldn't picture myself doing.).
Because it might turn people off if the results of the polls hold any water.
(Imo those civs if really intended as a showcase / introduction should receive special care and careful consideration instead of neglect. And here the suggestions were not about actually making them much complicated. Just adding some direly needed extra beef.)
Doviello are not having any unique mechanics and are therefore easier to handle than say, the Luchuirp. If your chosen person is a warmonger, I'd recommend him the pack. Among others, like the Clan.
on workers is something that I miss in FFH anyway as in vanilla expansive was one of my favorite traits (though I always thought it would be more fitting for industrious). Another possibility would be to let the workers start with the skilled promotion from ff (that combines skilled I-III), because industrious seems to be quality not quantity.
