Finding the Limits of Possibility: A Deity Plus Four Succession Game

[TheViking]

A relatively quiet set of turns but at least I discovered one AI civ and got lots of techs.

125 BC (0): Rush buy settler in Udal (16 gold). Problem: Need another trireme to visit the 'western civ'. Roskilde is at an optimal location for this but it is already supporting a trireme. Also need a diplomat. Taxes to 20% (13 gold) and science to 0% since our near term science will be from caravan deliveries. Switch production to diplomat in Hladir and trireme in Roskilde. Rush buy trireme (29 gold) as it may have to be rehomed before the diplomat boards it. Note to self: Need irrigation around some of our cities ASAP, especially Aarhus and Uppsala.

100 BC (1): The Udal builds settlers. Viborg reaches size 3 and celebrates - celebrations have stopped everywhere else. Roman trireme containing some cargo spotted at (38,66). Talk to the Indians and request a gift. They offer construction for 100 gold - too expensive. The Romans: Exactly the same result. Some incremental rush buys.

75 BC (2): Rush buy a caravan in Uppsala - it will be transported to the western civ. Aarhus dye to Veii (demanded; 176 gold). Science back to 20%. We really need some harbors...

50 BC (3): Rush buy settler in Viborg.

25 BC (4): The Spanish start Copernicus. Indians develop engineering, Romans acquire it from the GL. The Romans report that they have signed a peace treaty with the Japanese. Viborg builds settlers. Rush buy settlers in Lindholm and Jorvik.

1 AD (5): The Romans finally gift us something: Construction. Delay delivering a demanded caravan to Delhi since the delivery bonus will probably be excessive from a science point of view (Delhi has the colossus). The delivery bonus from a delivery to Rome next turn will probably be smaller but still adequate.

20 AD (6): Something gets killed near Kolhapur in the war between the Indians and Carthaginians every turn. The Romans gift iron working. The Indians offer the wheel for 100 gold - no. Hladir silver to Rome (demanded; 224 gold). Some incremental rush buys.

40 AD (7): The Romans report that they have signed a peace treaty with the Americans. We discover HBR. Monotheism next - masonry or pottery might be a more useful tech path but monotheism is nice for tech exchanges. The Romans gift us the wheel. The Indians gift us seafaring which is extremely useful (harbors). Kaupang silver to Delhi (demanded; 466 gold (!!)).

60 AD (8): The Romans gift us monarchy and the Indians Engineering. Two of our triremes are returning home so rush buy some caravans.

80 AD (9): The Romans gift us mathematics and the Indians 125 gold. A new civ is about to be discovered - check our allies. The Indians are at war with the Spanish and the Carthaginians - apart from this everything is peaceful. Japan discovered; diplomatic meeting. They demand 250 gold in tribute - OK (I don't want any wars now but would love to destroy Japan later on as it's not far from our civ). Gift them IW, republic and philosophy. Trade maps. Ask for alliance, they want 200 gold. Declined as I suspect they might also want us to declare war on someone. Embassy. They have 7 cities and are technologically somewhat more primitive than other known civs, including us (!).

100 AD (10): The Spanish have nearly completed Copernicus' Observatory. Uppsala dye to Kyoto (demanded; 216 gold). The Romans gift us astronomy (which the Indians do not have). The Indians gift us 100 gold. We now have the prerequisite techs for navigation and will soon discover monotheism.

Decision on whether to exchange techs with the Japanese left to my successor but I don't think we'll benefit from it at the moment - the Romans may give us the techs if we want them and we can always gift the Japanese some techs later if we want to keep them happy. We need to stockpile some [food] caravans so that we can grab Magellan the moment we discover navigation. This isn't very far in the future since we have one caraval loaded with caravans heading for the Romans and Indians and another one will follow next turn. Note: Delhi has the colossus so we get lots of $$ by delivering demanded stuff there; the only drawback is that it's pretty distant for our slow triremes. Delhi demands coal and there's a coal camel aboard one of the triremes.

The fortress at (39,65) was built by the Romans. There might be a brand new Roman city near that spot as well.

Contrary to what I love to do I didn't expand/found any new cities. We really needed (and need) some roads and irrigation so I concentrated on these. However, we'll probably soon be ready to found a few new cities. In particular we need to expand to the south towards the Romans (this is also useful for caravans deliveries once we have roads there). There are also some nice city sites W or NW of Hladir. We are starting to feel some problems caused by our closely spaced cities (Aarhus, Trondheim, Kaupang and Uppsala) so we should probably not have the next wave of new cities as densely packed as we are significantly less vulnerable now than at the start of the game (in particular, we have some cash reserves).

This may be important to know in future 'wonder races': The Romans started Cope on my 4th turn and will finish it next turn. This is quick so as I mentioned, we need to stockpile of caravans to grab Magellan once we have navigation. We have some cash (638 gold) from caravan deliveries and as gifts from the Indians so this shouldn't be difficult.

As the log shows I acquired lots of techs as gifts from our allies. This slows down our science but I think the benefits are more important: This should enable us to exchange techs with civs we discover, we now have the techs required to research navigation and we are doing most of the science via caravan deliveries which yield big science bonuses - I think we typically need 2-3 deliveries per discovery.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Good set of turns.

I think the next 20 or so turns should be a land grab; I would use around 7 of our settlers to found new cities, and have each of those cities produce at least 1 more (to the extent that there is space). We should fill in our continent and the Island 31 (north of Japan) at least. Using the settlers would also reduce the pressure on food and reduce our need for further irrigation.

Regarding the tightly packed cities in our core, we should consider disbanding Aarhus and Kaupang; they served their purpose in getting us quickly to The Republic, and would provide us with lots of settlers to found new cities or replace other settlers used for that activity (remembering to rehome them).

The fortress at (39,65) was built by the Romans. There might be a brand new Roman city near that spot as well.

You are probably right about the city; I don't think the AI builds fortresses where it doesn't have cities. We should claim the rest of the land on that peninsula ASAP, because if they get too many cities there it will be a big problem once our alliance disolves.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Magic Gorter said in another thread that he would be gone about 3 weeks; therefore, If Charlie Chuck can play sooner, he probably should.

 

[CharlieChuck]

Magic Gorter said in another thread that he would be gone about 3 weeks; therefore, If Charlie Chuck can play sooner, he probably should.

That's probably a good idea, I'm on holiday last 2 weeks of august. So it would be lots of long gaps other wise.

I'll have a look and play in next few days.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I don't want any wars now but would love to destroy Japan later on as it's not far from our civ

I've been looking at the game, and I think that we'll have 2 windows of opportunity to destroy the Japanese in the "near future."

The first is the window between when we get Monotheism and they get Feudalism (or city walls in more of their cities). The second is between our acquisition of Steam Engine and their acquisition of Gunpowder.

In the first case, we would immediately make contact with the Americans and give them enough military units to survive as a permanent drain on the Japanese military. In the meantime, we would rush a moderate to large number of crusaders and ship them over to Japan for the assault.

The problems with this option are that we would very likely lose a wonder (probably Magellan's), and that the best point of innitial attack, Kyoto (farthest from Washington, and closest to us) has city walls, and we would therefore need to build a few Barracks for vet crusaders on top of the other expenses. Also, we might raise the army only to find out that they have built too many city walls for us to deal with, and we would have an army with little purpose.

The second option, wating for steam engine (or going directly for electricity), has its own drawbacks: they may get gunpowder before we can get steam engine (not too likely if we tech directly for it) and half their cities are inland. The benifits of wating are that our economy will be better able to support a war and we have a better chance of getting the wonders we want.

 

[TheViking]

You are probably right about the city; I don't think the AI builds fortresses where it doesn't have cities. We should claim the rest of the land on that peninsula ASAP, because if they get too many cities there it will be a big problem once our alliance disolves.

I agree with this and my log implies this. In fact I now think we should send a settler or two ASAP to found a city as far south on that peninsula as possible - exactly how far south depends on the location of the [probable] Roman city there. This should make it more difficult for the Romans to expand there and a coastal city in that area would be useful for us as well. The usual way to expand would be to start by founding cities near the cities we already have but the probable presence of a Roman city on that peninsula and the possible Roman expansion there changes this.

 

[CharlieChuck]

Decide delhi too far away to deliver coal quickly (10 turns).

100 decide to get rid of aarhus and kaupang, science to 40%, rearrange few workers, to keep order,rush trireme udal, rush aarus dip

120 Madrid finished coppernicus, Indians lose Kolhapur to carthags, rehome dip trondheim

140 indians chivalry, Monon -> Navig, buld aarus setler into jorvik

160 Indians get maths from Romans, Romans get chivalry, rehome trireme to lindholm, Hispalis found on our continent 40,64 by dip, westness built 22,64, rush kaupang settler

180 romans expel dip, jap govt overthrown, kaupang settler, trond dye cumae(undemanded) 144g, rush aarhus trireme,

200 Jap republic, Jarrow founded, Skara founded above hispalis, ravning edge founded 36,54 rehome aarhus trirem to ravning,

220 indian gold van trades with hladir, romans Mono, Romans start king richards, jap engineering, jap starts king richards, udal dye pompeii 264g, Birka founded, Kaupang coal antium (undemanded) 100g
656 gold, we'll discover navig next turn, spend 400g vans ready 2 turns, science to 40% lux 60%

240 indians univ, indians & spanish peace, japs & americans peace, Naviagtion -> University (indians have it only bridge & physics to choose from), start viborg harbour, build ravning to size 2, jarlshoff founded

260 supply 8 vans to trondheim

280 Trondgeim magellans, approach indians swap navig for univ, swap maps, request gift no

300 start invention

We have magellans. Do we want Leos? I've left 4 triremes in a ship chain from Aahrus. No vans to carry as yet, but we've got 2 vans about to deliver to japs, should be able to rush some vans then, got 120gold.

I've left a dip sleeping on a 3 square speical next to Hispalis, there's a roman settler lurking about there. We could do with exploring to the north, I've not back-clicked, but there must be some land up there.

Downsizing Aaruhs & kaupang is harder than I thought, they keep regrowing! You might be able to trade techs with Japs, but they're building king richards. Romans may give a gift if asked? Not sure though, the indians didn't and they have 1400gold.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I wouldn't go for Leo's unless we can avoid starting it in the next turnset (unlikely, as the Indians are researching Invention). We only have 2 caravans worth of deliveries in the near future, and if we spend those profits on caravans for leo's, we won't be able to buy new caravans for deliveries.

In any case, there are 4 classes of units that Leo's upgrades: military units, settlers, caravans, and ships.

In the first case, unless we go campaigning, we will have very few military units before chivalry, and those that we do have will be easy to disband for new units. In the case of settlers, we can found new cities with them and make engineers as their replacement. In the case of caravans, we will forfeit a fifty percent bonus on a few of them, but that can be saved by virtue of the fact that we will be delivering 8 caravans to foreign civs and re-investing the profits several times over in the meantime.

This leaves ships, which are hard to replace manually because they are usually at sea. The best thing we can do is to research magnetism as our next goal and launch galleons instead of caravels.

On the subject of ships, I would advise chaining from Lindholm to India via the Jaipur Island (a trireme can make it across in 1 turn).

We may consider giving invention to the Japanese, and they might build Leo's, which we could capture at the right time.

 

[TheViking]

Regarding the disbanding of cities, it's difficult to do without rush buying settlers. So I don't think we should work on disbanding both cities at the same time. We should only disband Aarhus at this time - Kaupang supplies dye which is demanded almost everywhere so it should produce at least one caravan before we start disbanding it.

Addendum: The Roman setter at (43,61) will probably soon found a city. We should bribe it ASAP and found a city at (44,62) or nearby. We also need another city west of Hispalis ASAP. This should be sufficient to prevent the Romans from founding more cities on that peninsula.

 

[Magic_gorter]

Good to see that Charlie played yet. I still have a week holiday left but am at home. So perhaps I have time to play this week.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I may not have reguar access to the internet for the next few weeks (and certainly not convenient access) because my parents have moved and the man from the interenet company isn't scheduled to set the house up for a few weeks. At the absolute latest, I will have proper internet access when I return to university in early September.

Unless I post otherwise, assume that I won't be able to play until early September.

 

[TheViking]

I'm getting a bit confused - who is playing now or whose turn is it to play? Any news of our empire?

 

[CharlieChuck]

I'm getting a bit confused - who is playing now or whose turn is it to play? Any news of our empire?

I think it's Magic Gorter's turn?

 

[Magic_gorter]

Yes it's my turn. Had no time playing yet and have to finish GOTM 100 first. I hope I finish this weekend with the succession game.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I have internet at my house again. If Magic Gorter has not started playing, I can play the turnset.

 

[Magic_gorter]

I just started. Had to finish gotm 100 first which I finished a couple of days ago. So please be patient.

 

[Magic_gorter]

I finished my turns this morning...here is my log:

turn 1 320 AD Indians develop Invention and start Leonardo's / Indians acquire Monotheism and start Physics
Romans acquire Invention and research Bridge Building
Japanese almost finished King Richard
beads Roskilde to Satsuma (132g) / got Invention from Romans
turn 2 340 AD Romans acquire Bridge Building from Spanish (peace treaty signed) / Romans quit building King Richard
Osaka (Japan) build King Richard
Spanish changed /King Richard into Leonardo's
start researching Bridge Building (Romans have it so I hope to get it) / bribed Viroconium (4g + Bridge Building)
turn 3 360 AD Indians liberate Kolhapur
start researching Physics / The Udal build spice caravan (not demanded) / Aarhus build settler (size 3) / Uppsala build gold caravan (Antium wants it) / wine caravan lands near Washington (peace treaty signed and got map)
turn 4 380 AD Indians almost finished Leonardo's
Japanese develop Astronomy
wine to Washington (265g)
turn 5 400 AD Karachi build Leonardo's (Indian) / Indians change to Michelangelo's
Spanish quit Leonardo's
Romans develop Medicine
we discover physics and start with Medicine / Lindholm builds coal caravan (Delhi) / gave Physics to Indians (hope they start Magnetism)
turn 6 420 AD Indians develop Gunpowder and start Sun Tzu
turn 7 440 AD Indians nearly ready with Sun Tzu
Upssala gold to Antium (216g)
turn 8 460 AD Kolhapur bribed by Carth's
Jaipur completes Sun Tzu / Indians nearly complete Michelangelo's
Trondheim wine (Rome)
Romans cancel Alliance-> our ship chain must be build again
turn 9 480 AD met Carth's gave some techs and got Gunpowder and maps
Bombay build Michelangelo's
Japanese develop Bridge Building
turn 10 500 AD Aarhus build settler (size 2) / coal to Delhi (330g)

Bribing the Roman city was perhaps not that wise. No more alliance and we need to discover Medicine our self. But we can use that city to start our ship chain. There is some money to do nice things with but I leave that for the next. I was heading for magnetism but have not discovered it yet. The last ship (the one with diplomat was heading to the Carth's for a embassy)....

Good luck for the next one.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

First Thoughts:

We need an ally to replace the Romans. The Americans are too small; we may want to get rid of them to open a slot for a civil war. The Japanese are also small and have no techs we need at the moment, but they do have some cash. I was expecting them to be our first conquest, but there is little point because they have no wonders except King Richard’s. The Romans are closer, not much bigger, and we might get some help from the Indians. The Carthaginians have a history of being at war with the Indians, so they will be troublesome to be allied with. This leaves the Spanish, whom I will contact and try to get an alliance with this set of turns, unless new information comes up.

At the very least I’m going to try to fill in our continent to the east. Depending on when we get Magnetism, I may also build ships to send settlers to other continents.

(0) A.D. 500: Cancel Trondheim Aqueduct production; it will provide little benefit without other infrastructure. Change Jorvik production to settler, on grounds that a harbor will provide little benefit without an aqueduct, and I think we need to expand some more before putting more resources into making our existing cities bigger. Make miscellaneous changes to production and worker tiles.

(1) A.D. 520: Medicine, begin Magnetism. Hladir dye. Uppsala aqueduct. I tell the Romans to leave our territory, and they respond with WAR. Rush crusaders in Skara and Musketeers in Viroconium; treasury down to 161 gold. Jorvik wine to Rome (d) for 285 gold. Indians: I refuse to go to war with the Carthaginians and to give them 150 gold; I do not ask for a gift. Japanese demand 100 gold; I refuse so they declare war. Change Uppsala production to 10 (dispatch a settler to irrigate a square).

(2) A.D. 540: Indians develop Leadership, capture Carthaginian city of Russadit, take bridge Building. Japanese are a Monarchy. Jarrow Settlers. Rush 10 shields of an explorer in Uppsala (so that I can start a barracks next turn). Trade Medicine to Indians for Leadership, and Romans get it from the Great Library.

(3) A.D. 560: Uppsala builds explorer (rehomed to Kaupang) and begins barracks.

(4) A.D. 580: Disorder in Birka, rearrange for WLTC next turn. Decide to break up shipchain because 2 boats are headed in the direction of Carthage and the caravans en route should ensure the discovery of magnetism. Remaining 3 boats will serve as domestic transports until it makes sense to disband them.

(5) A.D. 600: Make peace with Japanese and expel their diplomat near Skara. The Udal spice (nd) to Delhi for 182 gold. Trondheim Wine (d) to Kolhapur for 290g.

(6) A.D. 620: Romans develop Sanitation. Disorder in Viroconium, rearrange workers. Westness settlers, disorder. Magnetism, begin Chemistry (for explosives). Jorvik settlers. The Udal harbor. Kaupang settlers. Rush Galleons in Jarlshof, Roskilde, Ravning Enge and Lindholm. Rush diplomat in Skara. Birka Copper to Bombay (d) for 204 gold.

(7) A.D. 640: Watch a very large number of barbarian horsemen and chariots throw themselves at an Indian dragoon and eventually destroy it. Romans begin Shakespeare’s Theatre. Viborg wine, begin Galleon. Uppsala Barracks, begin Dragoons. Rush more galleons. Build Sigtuna. Establish Embassy with Spanish. They are backwards, and have no government techs. I contact them; they demand I declare war on Carthage, I refuse but they don’t declare war. They refuse to trade techs (I would have taken Masonry). Move the Skara horsemen out 1 square to protect the city and a diplomat from attack next turn from a Roman Dragoon.

(8) A.D. 660: Romans get Magnetism from the Great Library (Carthaginians probably developed it). A large number of barbarians attack and kill another Indian Dragoon. Birka and Hladir settlers. Build Odense. Hut: Barbarians (will lose settler). Taxes to 40% to provide extra money to bribe Hispalis.

(9) A.D. 680: Build Lunde. It will be in disorder due to corruption; will leave it there while it works the fish to grow in 5 turns.

Lief Errikson discovers “Silkland” after sailing north and convinces a team of settlers to settle near that valuable resource.

(10) A.D. 700: Spanish develop gunpowder, Indians acquire Magnetism from the Carthaginians, and sign a peace treaty. Indians develop Steam Engine, and trade it to the Romans for Sanitation. Build Larne. It will cost 726 gold for Hispalis to revolt. Hladir dye (d) to Calcutta for 364 gold.

Notes:

I’ve left it to the next player to decide whether or not to bribe Hispalis. Doing so will cost 726 gold, but make our life a lot easier on the defense front for a while.

Both the Romans and the Indians have Steam Engine and Sanitation; we can get one of these if we bribe Hispalis; I think we may have a tech or two that the Indians don’t have that we could trade for the other, or we will when we research Chemistry.

We have 7 galleons, 5 of which are near to a shipchain position, but are not in one yet. I didn’t rush any more galleons in order to save for the bribing of Hispalis. We can use our remaining triremes for exploration or miscellaneous shipping.

I built several cities during my turnset, and have set up a couple more to be built shortly. The Trireme northwest of Kyoto holds a settler that can be landed as soon as all the barbarians disappear (or sooner, if you want to go to the trouble of rushing defenses). The Galleon northwest of the Trireme holds 2 more settlers, which can be used for that island or sent farther away to lay claim to more islands. There is also a settler on the island north of Viborg that can found a city next turn, and another one on the nearby galleon. I built Lunde for the purpose of having an outpost in that part of the world, but it shows the disadvantages of building cities that far away: they don’t have enough trade for 2 luxuries right away. Such colonies do, however, establish our presence in the regions where they are founded, and that presence can be built upon once we discover democracy (which is available to us any time).

I didn’t conduct much foreign policy during my turnset, mostly because I didn’t see any reason to; no one really had anything I wanted, and the Indians were at war with the Carthaginians, so I didn’t want to refuse them too often.

The Romans now have Steam Engine which could make life difficult for our shipchain; we may either have to build an ironclad or two, or make extra effort to keep out of war with them; fortunately, most of their cities face their southern sea, so some of the danger is reduced.

I built a barracks in Uppsala, which is currently building a dragoon. I built the barracks to give us some military capability (the city couldn’t build much else anyway), but feel free to sell the barracks if you don’t think it necessary. If we want to attack Japan, they don’t have Gunpowder at the moment, so Ironclads and Dragoons (especially if some are vet) should be sufficient to take the Island if we act quickly enough. If you want to do this, ask the Americans to declare war in order to draw troops south.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Additional note:

The Aarhus settler on the wine near Lindholm has been mining for a few turns (I accidentally clicked on it after it had worked last turn). I wanted to mine the silk to give the city more production since it is a very good place to launch ships from.

You may want to take the time now to re-home it because Aarhus can be disbanded rather quickly now that it is below size three.

 

[Magic_gorter]

Who is playing next??? I believe it's the turn of BloodyMonk but don't know if he's recovered enough from the flue to play yet....