FiRe! - Fall into Revolution

[arkham4269]

I think this mod needs some work. Playing on Noble as Decius w/Calibim, all I'm doing is keeping my empire from barely falling into rebellion. I'm constantly doing nothing but building things that will cause happiness, yet nothing is working. Even letting my Civ change leaders doesn't work. So in the mean time, all I've done is make my Civ cultural attractive to the other AI Civ's and make myself weak so I can't defend myself when they attack.

What gets me is that almost every city is happy except my capital. Yet the second a city gets some they seem to instantly want to rebel. I'm mean at this rate, no leader will be able to do anything that might anger the plebes. Plus, at this rate, I dare not build Governor's Mansions dure to their +1 which sort of defeats the purpose of playing as Calibim. Plus, I would expect a lot of these rebellion issues to wait a little bit into the game; I've barely researched 10 techs and my Civ is falling into ruins! I only had 5 cities, which under City States, is an acceptable amount of cities, I would think. I shudder to think what would happen if I could spread out more...which I can't because I can't afford to build settlers since I need to keep building things like Carnivals just to keep the mob barely happy!

Plus, considering the Civlopedia on the Pillar of Chains, how come I don't have an option in to send in the troops to kill off the disaffected? Sure I lose some population, but the rest will stay scared for a bit. I want to give the mob a 'whiff of grapeshot' - teach them who runs this Civ!

 

[Jean Elcard]

It's out of the question that there are lot of things that need to be done to make this mod well balanced. I really appreciate all the feedback you give me. This way I might learn where I should start making changes first.

For now I can only tell you that it's crucial to stay below the happy cap under any circumstances! My Balseraphs were doing quite well this way yesterday.

The Calbim probably need a special solution. I'll have to think about one.

 

[arkham4269]

I really appreciate all the feedback you give me. This way I might learn where I should start making changes first.

Well when I allowed Flauros to take control of my Civ, the blurb said it was for 22 turns yet I got back control in under 3-5 terms and pretty much the only thing that had changed was instead of just my Capital being cranky, my whole Civ was right put out.

Another thing that got me about my issues was that since I was stuck playing that funky Erebus maps, all my cities where really close together so most of them had overlapping 2 tier squares; you'd think that might have a calming effect of cities cultures reinforcing each other.

Then again, I always felt I wanted this mod less for the major Civ's having rebellion issues and more about barbarian cities becoming Civs in their own right when they got to civilized. I think that major Civs should start to worry about rebellion (I mean really worrying) when they get to big, especially if they have cities across water barriers, they have a bad mix of civics or more importantly, if they end up with religions that don't 'match' their alignment. I mean I can sort of see it happening, but seeing a AV Bannor is just plain weird. As I've said previously, there I can see the whole civ breaking up pretty quickly.

 

[Opera]

Have you tried to edit the Revolution.ini file? You can decrease the effect of, say, or increase the effect of distance, or religion, or culture. But remember that it will affect you but also your opponents.

Personally, I like to see the work of Revolution. Yesterday, I played with the Lanun. I had a very little piece of land, pretty coastal (on a side note: now, I know that a interior city isn't the best choice with this civ). I had some trouble with my capital because it was growing too fast. I had unhealthiness, unhappiness. Plus the negative modifiers of government. Twice my people asked me too change my civics (God King > City State; Conquest > Decentralization). I accepted, I could not risk a revolution (I had little to no force to counter it). Then, by a sum of circumstances, I ended up with Grigori's Midgar. Beside the fact that it was right under the raging barbarians of Acheron's Ultigar, it was feeling awfully rebellious. I had to go to 40% research and 40% culture to maintain order... I admit that I'm not going very well in this game... The Ljosalfar have a city which gain 100k+ culture per turn. I know this is a bug.

I also have something to say considering the DynamicCivNames. It would be great to add a lot of diversity, maybe based on lore. I'm not an expert of it, however, but I got some ideas.

First: City States + Nationhood + 2+ cities = something like "United Cities of the CivName".

An Aristocracy isn't quite linked to feudalism, is it? I'm not sure. But... for example, switching to Aristocracy from Republic could give something like: "Closed Senate of..."

But, as in my first idea, I think that "Cultural Values" must be near as important as "Government". Two civ with the same government but one valueing "Nationhood" and the other "Religionhood" will not be the same and, therefore, will not name themselves the same way. TheJopa's "Chosen..." idea is good, but it'd be different according to the civilization. IIRC, some civ will consider themselves "chosen" but some won't. It would also be cool if each government civic provided a different name. If "God King" gives "Kingdom", "Aristocracy" don't. For example, "God King" seems to emphasizes capitol a lot, perhaps its name could be in the civ's name.

I'm done, but I'll read some lore and return with ideas (if I'm allowed to ). But, before I go, here's two sidenotes: 1) For a civ with Guardian of Nature, perhaps its name could include "Havens", a sort of hommage to a certain book. 2) I would, very personally, appreciate greatly this: if the leader is a woman, make the name be "Queendom" instead of "Kingdom".

 

[Ekolite]

Godking could give ''The Realm of (leader name)''.

The Realm of Perpentach or the Realm of Sabathiel for example.

 

[Opera]

Me again. Nothing about CivNames, but I have to show this:

I guess it is a FiRe bug, since I was playing FiRe and didn't have it while playing FFH. I attached the save, just in case.

 

[arkham4269]

An Aristocracy isn't quite linked to feudalism, is it? I'm not sure. But... for example, switching to Aristocracy from Republic could give something like: "Closed Senate of..."

The problem with Aristocracy is that in some respects more of a economic system. I mean a look at some historical ones show they have a lot of different styles of government in play.

1800 England (Parliament w/a weak king)
1800 France (Parliament w/a strong king)
1920/2000 United States (Federal Republic but strong corporations running things)

Personally the way I think most people think of Aristocracy, it should be changed to Plutocracy

It almost seems to me that they need a different civic column. In one column you have the type of government.

Warlord/Strongman
Absolute Monarchy
Direct (Athenian) Democracy (good for small empires)
City States
Parliamentary Monarchy
Republic

Then the next column you'd have the 'style' of your government
Theocracy - priest in power
Plutocracy - wealthy in power
Oligarchy - small elite in power
Autocracy - One (or maybe a troika) in power
Democratic/Representational - people in power

I mean Iran is a Theocratic Republic and some would say the US is a Plutocratic Republic.

 

[Ekolite]

Maybe for an earth simulation mod, but for FFH this is too complicated.

 

[arkham4269]

Okay, I just wasted another 3 hours of my life.

Playing Blaseraphs: I have about 5 cities again and the only thing I end up doing is having to deal with my capital city and my 2nd largest city going frickin' on me all the time. I can't do crap because I'm constantly trying to keep them happy. Nothing works and I can't build units fast enough to deal with the rebellions. I mean why are my core cities the ones that are freaking out? "Waah! Waah! It's too overcrowded! Waah! Waah! We aren't attacking anyone! Waah! Waah! We just pissy!"

Well because I have all these I can't do ANYTHING! I can't build the carnivals I want because no one is working! I can't attack anyone because I can't build any units because no one is working! In short, I can't do anything because the people aren't cutting me any frickin' slack.

I'm sorry but a size 6 city isn't grounds for a rebellion in my book. Games are supposed to be fun; this last game made me want to get very, very violent which I don't think is the intent of this mod.

 

[TheJopa]

Okay, I just wasted another 3 hours of my life.

Playing Blaseraphs: I have about 5 cities again and the only thing I end up doing is having to deal with my capital city and my 2nd largest city going frickin' on me all the time. I can't do crap because I'm constantly trying to keep them happy. Nothing works and I can't build units fast enough to deal with the rebellions. I mean why are my core cities the ones that are freaking out? "Waah! Waah! It's too overcrowded! Waah! Waah! We aren't attacking anyone! Waah! Waah! We just pissy!"

Well because I have all these I can't do ANYTHING! I can't build the carnivals I want because no one is working! I can't attack anyone because I can't build any units because no one is working! In short, I can't do anything because the people aren't cutting me any frickin' slack.

I'm sorry but a size 6 city isn't grounds for a rebellion in my book. Games are supposed to be fun; this last game made me want to get very, very violent which I don't think is the intent of this mod.

Chill out man. This is work in progress.

 

[arkham4269]

Chill out man. This is work in progress.

Oh don't worry about me, after Afghanistan, me and my brain-pain don't see eye to eye anymore.

 

[TheJopa]

What also needs fixing is every second civ styling itself People's Republic of XX Communist Erebus!

 

[Y T]

Sorry for the troubles, but your last big post let me laugh, arkham, just fun to read!^^
I dont know where the exact problem is at the moment, except as Jean already mentioned, the mod aint finetuned towards FFH!

What did I find out sofar?:
I had all components of the mod activated & I think the flavour component might not work to well together with the Erebus mapscript(Which already places civs in flavour).
I got a couple of pythonerrors & didnt bother to make a SS, cause I thought its just this mysterious startup bug.
I ended up, as I already thought & just got prooved, with a normal erebus script map, just without mountains, no mountains except the ones bordering the map, all others were transformed into hills (or didnt quite make it^^). So I have vast patches of icy or desert hills, which I thought at the beginning could be interesting to play, giving large areas for barb activity. I must admit the bug mustnt be on the mod side!

I'm playing as the Ljosalfar, 255 turns right now on normal speed; since I had minor civs activated & also the increasing difficulty option, I had to constantly fight my neighbours & build up military, lagged behind in research & my taxslider went down to 30% research, things werent going very well!
Then about 100 turns ago FiRe hit my civ, having only four cities surrounding the capital & the reason I was told was: Serious financial problems, also taxrate were getting to high for the plebs.
I certainly agreed, not being happy with my situation aswell. Godking was getting an higher problem too, though in normal at that civsize, it shouldnt be.
Being on Deity lvl for a long time already, finally my right neighbour, the Khazad, invented cartography & evolved to civstatus, peace declared, though he researched RoK & I FotL. But the left neighbour, the Malakim, doesnt seem to bother researching cartography, just to busy fighting off the Hippus, eventually sending over a small group of swordsman, where I just have warriors & hunters.
I'm no Deity player, Im a buildertype getting bored on monarchlvl & not liking the bonus' the AI has to be given at higher lvls; but with only 5 cities & lacking behind in research, difficulty didnt drop. As I just know now, the AI didnt do very well either, in terms of the FiRe mod. The Khazad dont like me & trade is impossible, they were constantly loosing rebellious cities towards the Kuriotates as I was told, but with the last event I got contact with the Kurios, just invented trade & managed to trade techs & a worldmap. Far up in the north, it seems the Khazad were able to get the Kurio capital, which just rebelled, Kurious had about four other cities there, I personally never met them!
Another Khazad rebellion founded the Grigori with a mere 150 points who rightout declared war on me (didnt meet them either), but the mouseover also told me: -5 Past events drawn our people apart; next turn they were erased!^^

As i said, FiRe hit me, mostly because of the financial problems, but also something else was going on there, I tried to figure out the detailed info, but overall the figures seemed ok, good culture, having enough happiness over (I didnt let the cities grow to full size, just about 10 right now & didnt research Guardian of Nature sofar), something else called Nationality with -2; but nevertheless almost all cities including the capital hit over 1000 & I awaited rebellions every turn. Switching from Godking to City States didnt do very much, but still nothing happened, maybe I was just lucky.
I hurried Calendar -> Festivals, received an "GoodCiV" event, getting me a prophet for Song of Autumn & was lucky to get the FotL constellation event, receiving a Golden Age!
That GoldenAge did much to get me outta trouble, besides its bonus to FiRe I was able to increase research & since then my cities are slowly improving regarding the FiRe meter!

Suggestions:
With minor civs enabled the AI should be forced to research cartography for their own goodwill (might be a harder task).
The increasing difficulty option doesnt seem to count in the minor civs, who might be more advanced then you, just check if so.
I know it must be difficult anyway for a player on that option, if he starts with few AIs (standard seven in my case) & awaits other civs to develop over time.

 

[arkham4269]

Sorry for the troubles, but your last big post let me laugh, arkham, just fun to read!^^

My work here is done!

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Only problem I've yet encountered is with my rivals. I've been swapping between two separate games, one with the Sidar and another with the Illians, and from both I can conclude one thing- the AI doesn't know how to deal with what's going on. The end consequence of this is that those Civilizations that can deal with this (IE the human player) have an easy time of eliminating rivals.

Some of the more interesting things I've seen is the Amurite nation, so far as I can tell, separating into 5 separate nations.

It certainly does make the game very interesting, though.

 

[Y T]

Multireligious Civs are highly problematic right now.
Its a bad idea to mix ur current statereligion with e.g. Empyrean or Council of Esus.
Every new Holy City gets a big draft towards rebellion!

Normally Im used to initiating the Over/Under Council without necessarily switching to the religion, or getting lots of religions into my cities for e.g. a Altar of the Luonnotar victory.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

version 1.64 of Revolution is out

btw, my feedback on the current way FiRe works is that it's way too easy to trigger revolutions. they should be more the result of "extreme" circumstances instead than a constant threat imho. but it's still lots of fun and I'm sure that once this mod gets finetuned towards the FFH experience, it will add a LOT to the gameplay

 

[TheJopa]

version 1.64 of Revolution is out

btw, my feedback on the current way FiRe works is that it's way too easy to trigger revolutions. they should be more the result of "extreme" circumstances instead than a constant threat imho. but it's still lots of fun and I'm sure that once this mod gets finetuned towards the FFH experience, it will add a LOT to the gameplay

Yeah, definitely - I thought that this mod was supposed to do that, except that it is still in beta. Wouldn't it be like that when mod.mod is completed?

Revolutions should be threat to huge empires, to break the effect you get when one civ eats another, doubles her research and commerce and industry, so it eats third even easier...

 

[arcticnightwolf]

Hallowed are the ((Ori!) C4!) Jean Elcard!

 

[arkham4269]

Had an issue yesterday when I started a game w/o the Flavored start (which supposedly causes problems) and was playing the Kuriotes (yeah sp, I know)

I ran into a problem that seems to creep up a lot; I could do any tech research. I've heard this comes from playing FF and the FfH because some of the flags in FF when ported into FfH says "No techs!"

However, the last FF game I had, was mostly empty of any flags at all, not to mention I've switched from playing FiRE from FF and back w/no problems. So is this some problem specific to this Civ?