First Look: Kongo

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Hansa seems to have one disadvantage over normal industrial district which is no bonus from mines so it is possible that the same applies to Mbanzas.

 

[Matthew.]

I could see this as being one of my favorite Civs to play. In Civ 5 I liked benefiting from religion, but I hated trying to get one of my own and compete against enemy missionary spam. I was always too busy focusing on military and expansion. As such, I usually let a religious neighbor do the work for me. With Kongo, they can do the same thing and benefit even more from it.

Also, that extra food, production, and gold is so sexy. It kind of reminds me of Civ 5's Inca in a way. With a decent mountain start, they'd have so much food and production that you could leverage an advantage towards any of the victories.

 

[Inhalaattori]

I still dont really understand how Kongo works when it comes to religion. Can they still found religion or not? Because they said in FL video that they cant have holy site, but I assume they can build Stonehenge.

Can they win religious victory without founding religion? Because based on earlier information it seems you cant win religious victory without founding your own religion. But they did say in FL video that Kongo is good for all victories.

Also what is Kongo going to do with all these extra apostles they get from building certain districts? Do they really have good use for them.

Very confusing.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Think Kongos leader ability as parasitizing on another civ's religion. They do all the work and expenses while you get the same benifints. Free apostels help you spread the religion for even greater founder bonuses.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Think Kongos leader ability as parasitizing on another civ's religion. They do all the work and expenses while you get the same benifints. Free apostels help you spread the religion for even greater founder bonuses.

Apostles make Relics too, for those bonuses.

 

[fmm]

Think Kongos leader ability as parasitizing on another civ's religion. They do all the work and expenses while you get the same benifints. Free apostels help you spread the religion for even greater founder bonuses.

With this interpretation, it does make sense that Kongo can only have the founder beliefs of a single religion at a time (and perhaps "established" in the sentence "any religion that has established itself in the majority of your cities" means "is the dominant religion in that city"). But still have to say it was a very unclear presentation of this ability.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Can you tell me how relics are created? Just sacrifice an apostle and you have a relic?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Can you tell me how relics are created? Just sacrifice an apostle and you have a relic?

I don't know for sure, but images of Relics often include a phrase about coming from an Apostle.

 

[fmm]

I don't know for sure, but images of Relics often include a phrase about coming from an Apostle.

I believe we also have seen Relics appear in goody huts in some videos. Presumably "artifacts" are different than "relics" and are created by archeologists instead of apostles.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I believe we also have seen Relics appear in goody huts in some videos. Presumably "artifacts" are different than "relics" and are created by archeologists instead of apostles.

Yes. This does not diminish my point.

 

[4N4C0ND4]

I found funny that a continent that is not particulary kown in history to have a big population has one of the rare boni to food we have seen so far ��
I like the uu, I just hope that it's possible to keep the feature on upgrades since I've always been a fan of super warrior armies

 

[Morningcalm]

I think people are missing the point of it not being Afonso!

If it was Afonso, then he would have already been converted to Christianity... but in game, it could be 'any' religion that happens to wander over. Design wise, I think this is a much smarter choice to use his real name and his appearance before conversion.

The problem is that Afonso converted when he was much younger than he appears in-game (in-game he appears at least 60 years old). So his in-game appearance is a weird mish-mash of post-conversion age and pre-conversion dress, it seems. Having said that, I suppose Afonso's official initiation of the nationwide conversion to Christianity came around when Afonso was in his 60s, so it sorta kinda makes sense.

I do agree keeping his original name makes more sense. We do want to highlight how African the civ is (as opposed to how Portuguese Kongo became).

I wonder why Kongo didn't get any science or trading bonuses given how active Afonso was in controlling trade and fostering school construction and knowledge of foreign languages. The developers went for a food/gold/housing heavy civ....which, though it has some justification in Kongo's population size per city at the time of Afonso, seems not to really hone in how religious Afonso was.

 

[Thormodr]

The problem is that Afonso converted when he was much younger than he appears in-game (in-game he appears at least 60 years old). So his in-game appearance is a weird mish-mash of post-conversion age and pre-conversion dress, it seems. Having said that, I suppose Afonso's official initiation of the nationwide conversion to Christianity came around when Afonso was in his 60s, so it sorta kinda makes sense.

I do agree keeping his original name makes more sense. We do want to highlight how African the civ is (as opposed to how Portuguese Kongo became).

I wonder why Kongo didn't get any science or trading bonuses given how active Afonso was in controlling trade and fostering school construction and knowledge of foreign languages.

Well, he converted when he was 31 years old in 1491 and became regent in 1509 when he was 49. Perhaps he didn't start to seriously enact important policies until he was the ruler.

As for trading bonuses, Kongo will be churning out Great Merchants and since they are all unique, perhaps they'll pick up some interesting bonuses (bonii?) along the way.

 

[Guandao]

Kongo seems to be an interesting civ to play. No holy sites and being a religious convert. Mvemba a Nzinga looks strange without European influenced clothing, but I understand why they would want to depict him like this. Hopefully, he is speaking Kikongo instead of Swahili.

 

[Morningcalm]

Interesting tidbits about Kongo from this UNESCO article, p. 555 on:

• Afonso's reign was the longest in Kongo's history, from 1506 to 1543.
• He opened the country to Portugal, setting up huge economic and political reoganization and "a deliberate assimilation of features of Christianity that was to prove permanent."
• He made the Catholic Church the state religion.
• His son Henrique was consecrated bishop in Rome. The bishopric later fell under Portugal's control.
• The slave trade developed from 1514 onwards. Afonso initially tried to establish a royal monopoly on it, and then in 1526, he tried to abolish it. This attempt failed, and even the royal monopolies on the slave trade were breached by the Afro-Portuguese of Sao Tome, by the kingdom's neighbors--both on the Loango coast and in Ndongo, and even in Luanda, an integral part of the (Kongolese) kingdom.
• Afonso used his revenue from the slave trade, ivory trade and the trade in raffia fabric to attract Portuguese technicians and missionaries.
• Before Afonso died, "social and political life had been transformed."
• A huge gulf formed between the nobility, who were literate, took part in the slave trade and espoused Christianity, and the ordinary people, who were harshly exploited.
• The royal house was strengthened from the importation of slaves from Pool and beyond for the royal guard.
• Increasing claimants led to a schism of the royal house into enemy factions, and a civil war destroyed the kingdom after 1665.

Well, he converted when he was 31 years old in 1491 and became regent in 1509 when he was 49. Perhaps he didn't start to seriously enact important policies until he was the ruler.

As for trading bonuses, Kongo will be churning out Great Merchants and since they are all unique, perhaps they'll pick up some interesting bonuses (bonii?) along the way.

Yes, I suppose Great Merchants help. Though the inability to really generate Great Prophets with any consistency makes Kongo not really a religious civ at all. I wish his apostles would at least get a boost, and/or he should get an apostle with each university/science building as well. I think as far as Kongo's design goes, it doesn't really encapsulate the truly religious focus of Afonso's reign....

 

[thejayq]

Religions can be founded on Stonehenge instead of holy sites.

I was also thinking about this while watching the video. I guess we will have to see whether this will allow Kongo to found a religion or that they simply did not mention in this video that the Stonehenge does not work for Kongo.

 

[Brianstorm]

Just going by history, which isn't fair but hey it's fun, I'd say Spain should get India or Kongo's bonus. Seeing how they never had their own religion and not only are strongly Catholic (which would be Roman by Civ standards) but had Christians, Muslims and Jews during their Al-Andalus period.

Kongo would make more sense to get all the benefits of someone else's religion with their total religious conversion changing them in a major way.

 

[Zaarin]

I was also thinking about this while watching the video. I guess we will have to see whether this will allow Kongo to found a religion or that they simply did not mention in this video that the Stonehenge does not work for Kongo.

Barring a district is one thing: it would be kind of strange to prevent a civ from a whole wonder. More to the point, though, is that Kongo is going to get precious little benefit from Stonehenge, so the player is unlikely to go for Stonehenge as Kongo.

Just going by history, which isn't fair but hey it's fun, I'd say Spain should get India or Kongo's bonus. Seeing how they never had their own religion and not only are strongly Catholic (which would be Roman by Civ standards) but had Christians, Muslims and Jews during their Al-Andalus period.

Kongo would make more sense to get all the benefits of someone else's religion with their total religious conversion changing them in a major way.

I think it's a stretch to say that Spain represents Al-Andalus--it clearly represents post-Reconquista Christian Spain.

 

[VermelhoRed]

Barring a district is one thing: it would be kind of strange to prevent a civ from a whole wonder. More to the point, though, is that Kongo is going to get precious little benefit from Stonehenge, so the player is unlikely to go for Stonehenge as Kongo.


I think it's a stretch to say that Spain represents Al-Andalus--it clearly represents post-Reconquista Christian Spain.

Some people said it before that they'll probably have the prophet substituted for a relic or something, much like Venice got great merchants instead of settlers when they picked certain policies

 

[Brianstorm]

Barring a district is one thing: it would be kind of strange to prevent a civ from a whole wonder. More to the point, though, is that Kongo is going to get precious little benefit from Stonehenge, so the player is unlikely to go for Stonehenge as Kongo.


I think it's a stretch to say that Spain represents Al-Andalus--it clearly represents post-Reconquista Christian Spain.

Definitely a stretch, but Spain needs to get their own religion for their abilities to really make sense which is the exact opposite of what happened. Of course the problem is how religion works in the game in the first place, since most religions are vastly different on huge scales IRL that can't really be put into a set of RPG choices. Personally I think you should still have to choose your religion like in Civ 4 while having follower beliefs be a huge factor in which you choose so that it can possibly outweigh pure diplomatic reasoning.