First Look: Kongo

[Morningcalm]

Even though I have reservations about the leader selection, Afonso I was still considered the greatest of Kongo's rulers, so fine. I do like the animation style and I think the Civ design is quite interesting. The Civ UA is fitting and something I had no knowledge of prior (and more historical knowledge is always a good thing, as I've enjoyed reading others' Civ and leader ideas in the Ideas and Suggestions forums).

I do wonder if anyone has a link to the Civ V forums in which Kongo was requested. I recall Kongo was popular then but want to rad up on that stuff and also on the other most requested civs.

 

[Abraxis]

Why is everyone saying Kongo is passive? They will probably be one of the most active, running around raiding neighbours to capture and house all the relics ect...

 

[Kerfuffle]

A very good looking leader. The quality of different leaders differ I can see, as if they were put together by two different people?

Friderick and Philip II were disappointing as far as animations/art is concerned.

Funnily enough, I find it a bit funny that people are really taking a liking to Mvemba's animations. I find it a bit robotic/floaty in places (not enough micro movement and the flow of the limbs in certain places seems a bit off) especially when he sort of throws his arms in the air and does that turn at the end shot. I'd expect his body to dip and Bob at least a tad bit as he takes steps to turn his body - its just really odd that his full body rotates without actually moving his hips, shoulders etc. It's not terrible but could be a bit better. Although I will say he is portrayed effectively as the endearing elderly neighbour type of character.

Edit: hrm actually my complaints are more aimed at the animation with the part where his body turns. Otherwise, the other one shown has minor complaints from me

Philip ii's scene on the other hand has nice flow to the animation without it looking too floaty, and I love the amount of expression in it. The only flaws I can point out in it from an animator's perspective is that there's some clipping going on at certain parts.

 

[stealth_nsk]

That's indeed what the reveal video is saying, but the interview seems to suggest you get all the founder beliefs. I would assume the reveal video is more likely to be correct, but not sure.

Reveal video is totally unclear. In the interview they use the word "every", so it looks like you get every one of them.

Also, speaking about Apostles - it's possible they are generated with the religion which is major in the city they're born in.

Why is everyone saying Kongo is passive? They will probably be one of the most active, running around raiding neighbours to capture and house all the relics ect...

Not Kongo is passive, but it's abilities are passive. You have very few unique gameplay, other than Mbanza placement. They don't have any specific choices and even have the choice of buying Great People with faith removed and replaced with passive bonus.

Even America looks more interesting with its Legacy Bonuses planning (if those bonuses will be valuable in the game).

 

[VermelhoRed]

To be fair, Anna Nzinga and Mvemba were related.

Plus, with a Macedonian leading Egypt and a Kurd leading Arabia, not to mention an Italian leading France, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

But all of those did lead those countries / civs. Ana never ruled Kongo, she ruled Ndonga. Being related doesn't matter. Having Ana lead Kongo would be like having Lorenzo de Medici leading France.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The civilization is Kongo, not Congo. Ngao Mbeba was actual king of the Kingdom of Kongo. I don't understand what's the problem with it.

 

[BenZL43]

The civilization is Kongo, not Congo. Ngao Mbeba Mvemba a Nzinga was actual king of the Kingdom of Kongo. I don't understand what's the problem with it.

ftfy.

 

[stealth_nsk]

ftfy.

Thanks! Working a bit too much

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Kongo looks like a really fun Civ to play. Culture, great people and growth will be cool. Not being able to build Holy Sites is a little weird as they surely had animist or some kind of religious beliefs before they converted, though.

That would be considered a pantheon belief perhaps.

 

[grey_Sanzhez]

It is not a model of Afonso. It's Makoko!

Affonso I pictures are not even close.

 

[Fede1893]

Don't know if somebody already noticed but in the video at 0:30 you can clearly see in the Great People menu that Great Prophet cannot be recruited (even with gold / faith) so I imagine that either you can't build stonehenge or even if you can you will not get a GP. Probably though you can conquer a Holy City of another religion.

Moreover the voiceover says you get the founder belief of ANY religion that becomes majority... Not a native english speaker but I believe any means anyone and not everyone in this context so only 1 founder religion.

But anyway there is little incentive, apart from stopping someone else to win, in holding a Holy City with this leader. Without holy sites (and religious buildings) your faith generation will be low; yes you'll get a free apostle for every unique district you make but will it be enough to win in a standard map? Don't think so.

 

[Morningcalm]

It is not a model of Afonso. It's Makoko!

Affonso I pictures are not even close.

This looks to be the basis for Afonso I in Civ VI. I prefer this to the more European style picture of Afonso (with scroll) which was very similar to a photo of a more recent Congo prince.

 

[Krajzen]

Anybody else dislikes Kongolese colors? I have always imagined them (and Bantu civs in general) with some beautiful shade of brown and then we get this bright yellow and Siam-like combo.
I've seen theory it is based on Afonso coat of arms but still, it looks ugly to me

 

[Morningcalm]

Anybody else dislikes Kongolese colors? I have always imagined them (and Bantu civs in general) with some beautiful shade of brown and then we get this bright yellow and Siam-like combo.
I've seen theory it is based on Afonso coat of arms but still, it looks ugly to me

Hopefully we get those colors for Mali. Because Mansa Musa was a big personality with obvious economic/religious bonuses ("The Bright Country" and gold) that could be applied, and *hopefully* Civ VI developers will add them in.

 

[Gangrin]

Anybody else dislikes Kongolese colors? I have always imagined them (and Bantu civs in general) with some beautiful shade of brown and then we get this bright yellow and Siam-like combo.
I've seen theory it is based on Afonso coat of arms but still, it looks ugly to me

I am OK with it. Not great but not terrible. Just like you said, it's CiV Siam combo and nobody complained about it then, so why not use it here as well?

 

[lorrydriverjr]

Anybody else dislikes Kongolese colors? I have always imagined them (and Bantu civs in general) with some beautiful shade of brown and then we get this bright yellow and Siam-like combo.
I've seen theory it is based on Afonso coat of arms but still, it looks ugly to me

Yeah, it's Spain's colors in reverse and it doesn't seem fitting here, unless it's a legit historical reference.

 

[Lord Lakely]

yeah not too fond of the colour scheme either (i would prefer it as Spain's colour scheme or Siam's, tbh), but I like everything else about Kongo.

Not building Holy Sites is weird, but okay because then you just focus on different things. They have a rainforest start bias, so that should help their science output a bit (rainforests do give a +1 science adjescency bonus, right???) and their special encourages building a few commercial hubs early. This + extra large cities from their unique neighbourhood, they could turn out to be really strong!

Their UA/HA puts them at odds with Brazil, but I feel like they can easily rush them with jungle-rush swordsmen which don't consume iron and take less damage from city bombardement.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

I think it's that he gets the founder belief of the majority religion in his empire.

I think this is wrong and I am not sure if anybody in this thread has it right. The narrator says "he does get the Founder Beliefs of any religion that has established itself in the majority of his cities". This clearly means that he can have Founders Beliefs from 2 and more religions. Actually, I think it is the most important part, otherwise his unique ability would in fact weaker him.

Example: Kongo has 5 cities, Catholicism coming from the west is in all of them (at least one follower), Buddhism coming from the east is in 3, and Judaism coming from the south is in two. So he gets Founders Beliefs from Catholicism and Buddhism, and needs to spread Judaism in to one more city to get it as well.

He probably gets those bonuses only in cities which actually do have 1 follower, so he should actively use religious units to spread those religions.

EDIT: Just realized that most of Founders Beliefs seem to require such religion to be majority religion in the city, which would mean Kongo can use only one in each city. But I think this has to work some other way. Collecting those Founder's Beliefs is the most important part, getting only one in each city would mean that his unique ability weakens him, which is nonsense. It would mean that in comparison to any other civ, he just loses tons of faith (no Holy Sites), Worship Beliefs and the right to choose its own Founders and Followers Beliefs, and gains in fact nothing for that.

EDIT2: Ok, seeing Denkt's post below me I have to admit that he gains something (by saving production on Holy Sites and future districts). But I still think/hope that he gets more of those beliefs, and wording in FL video supports that.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Kongo basically get all the advantages of founding a religion without any effort which is huge. This mean Kongo can focus on other stuff. Because district cost increase the more districts you have not being able to build holy district is not really a penalty, it is an advantage that look to be a penalty.

Getting twice the amount of great merchant and great artist points are huge very huge so Kong should focus on these districts to pull ahead.

Earlier more powerful neighbourhoods is very powerful as more population the more powerful you get.

Kongo basically get a 35 strength warrior in the classical era. This mean that Kongo can wait with ecampents and build other districts instead.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The most interesting thing about Kongo's "well take ur religion thx" spiel is that they can actively control it. Just build an Mbanza or a Theatre District in cities which have the best founder belief, get an apostle, spread the religion for more benefits. Quite the opposite from India who have to let the other religions trickle in, which in itself is quite luck-based. (can't see that working out too well on Huge maps, which I usually play on.)