First moves and getting those huts.

[sampsa]

You forgot to expand. In general, try to have as many cities as possible by turn 50. Not having three cities by T50 is very slow. I'd try to have at least 6 cities by T75.

 

[TruePurple]

You forgot to expand. In general, try to have as many cities as possible by turn 50. Not having three cities by T50 is very slow. I'd try to have at least 6 cities by T75.

Does free unit upkeep scale up with more cities?

But in general the increased city upkeep will drag down your research though?

 

[antimony]

Agree with @sampsa, looking at the save one problem is that the capital has more tiles improved and resources that it can use, so especially once it reaches the happiness cap of 5 you want to settle new cities around it with partly overlapping borders so they can share those already improved tiles from the capital and at the same time grab new good tiles resources. Also cities nearby = less upkeep than cities far away.

To answer your first question, yes, as you have more population in your empire you get more free units in the upkeep formula:

Unit Maintenance Explained - CivFanatics

As I didn't see an article covering the unit maintenance and did see a few questions about this subject, I thought about researching it myself. I hope it will be useful to some people. The first section of this article is about the in-game information of unit costs and how to read it correctly. The

www.civfanatics.com

On a related note, after your initial scouting / hut grabbing you can bring any military units (not scouts) closer to your borders to fogbust or sit in your cities if they are unhappy due to lack of military. You only need to fogbust to protect your perimeter and next few planned city sites. For example you're missing a fogbusting unit north of the capital around the deer, although the AI unit there is fogbusting for you right now.

Regarding the specific position here:

Spoiler :

On a map full of coastlines like this the Great Lighthouse (GLH) is absolutely overpowered. After your Fishing - Bronze Working opening you can go straight to Sailing and Masonry, and maybe after producing a settler and a worker your capital switches to build Lighthouse and then Great Lighthouse, putting chops into it and whip overflows to finish it quicker (whip overflow: so for example, if you have 1 production left on the Lighthouse, and whip one population, the whole 30 hammers minus 1 goes into overflow for the next build, which can be Great Lighthouse).

That's not a fully worked out plan, just a general idea, maybe you don't need to beeline it so much on Immortal... I see it hasn't been built yet in your game.

Then let's say you settle that little island SE of capital that can work the fish and pigs, that city will have 3 trade routes (thanks to GLH) and each trade route gets bonus commerce for being on a different island than your other cities. After currency it's 4 trade routes by city. At that point every city on the coast will more than pay for its upkeep just from traderoutes. So that's why GLH is potentially game-deciding. On more land-based maps you have to make sure cities are connected by roads and rivers, and work some tiles with commerce to make sure they pay for their upkeep and produce profit.

 

[Gumbolt]

So why only 1 city by 975bc? You could have 4-5+ cities by now. With Indians and their fast worker 4 cities by 2000bc could be possible. Whip and chop. You won't win at immortal like this. No wonder you were getting culture pressure from the AI on your games. You didn't expand.

Are you chopping forest? If you don't you will struggle on this map as you have forest covering most tiles. Where will your cottages go?

You have 12 units for 1 city. 3 gold paid for support due to units outside borders. 4 gold just for number of units.

What are the workers roading towards?

Can't really comment on starting micro as well past 2920bc.Whole point of BW was to chop and whip units.

 

[TruePurple]

What are the workers roading towards?

City placement, but barbs interrupted. Plus roading ahead of time for latter.

Anyway forget that run please, look at the start and what advice might be given.

starting micro

what do you mean?

 

[Gumbolt]

Well I think if you went fishing first. I would not complete the warrior and focis on fastest route to size 2. Then fastest production to workboat at size 2. Worker next. Grow to size 4. Whip settler. That or size 4 and chop out settlers. Save some forest for GLH?

On a normal map I go double settler at size 3-4. However here you likely want a 2nd worker to help clear the forest after first settler.

Hunting/AH probably right call for next techs. You could delay AH for sailing and Masonry for Great Light House. Albeit judging from your 975bc save the AI are slow here. Map covered in forest?

Perfect start for Great Lighthouse (GLH). Island city too for trade routes. You need to spam 10+ cities once you have Great Lighthouse. I would be using whip to put hammers into GLH.

City locations is tough here due to lack of food. You certainly want a city to share double clams. Do you share the pigs too or take the extra production? Deer with 3 tile lake? With light house 3f2c tiles. Cow/fish city.

 

[Gumbolt]

Huts are kind of spread out, so I actively search in likely spots a decent distance from where I find one.

Does anyone else feel they spawn near rivers more often?

Or is it totally random?

I would say random. Started a new game and had a look in world builder. Many spawning in areas with no rivers.

 

[TruePurple]

I spawned on a continent by myself with 0 river except for a single tile.

 

[sampsa]

Does free unit upkeep scale up with more cities?

Yes.

But in general the increased city upkeep will drag down your research though?

In general, no. More cities generate more . In this game more is more, and you should expand to at least 4 cities as fast as you possibly can. One of the main benefits of fast workers is faster chopping (no time spent moving on a forested tile).

 

[TruePurple]

City locations is tough here due to lack of food. You certainly want a city to share double clams. Do you share the pigs too or take the extra production? Deer with 3 tile lake? With light house 3f2c tiles. Cow/fish city.

Well I try not to overlap with cap but I suppose avoiding overlap in general is a habit from Freeciv where it's normal for cities to work every single tile eventually. Yes at the moment I could only get 6 tiles work with fur connected, but I could get more latter. Especially if I grab resources and trade as well. So I'd prefer not to overlap with cap.

There are a few spots I think would be good for cities. But I'm not sure how to indicate such for people to check themselves. Anyone have a idea of how to tell other people the location of a specific tile? Screenshot is out, it's really difficult for me to screenshot and I can't put down those city planning blueprints with the x something anyway.

But three spots are, a spot that would have two whales and two deer in its radius, though I won't be able to use the whale tiles for a bit, those will bring more happiness and trade with AI for their happiness resources and such.

A spot along a narrow strip that would join two areas of water for a major shortcut and has some resources around it as well.

A stone resource some distance away. It should be exposed in that run where I expanded too slow, a strip of land below me. The stone could be used to get that wonder that gives 2 happiness to everyone on the continent.

Perfect start for Great Lighthouse (GLH). Island city too for trade routes. You need to spam 10+ cities once you have Great Lighthouse. I would be using whip to put hammers into GLH.

If I was playing against other players and most GW are useless except for fail gold but GLH was very powerful, wouldn't it be a contest to see who can get to GLH first and then they won? Seems like a balance issue.

BTW I play Asoka.

 

[Gumbolt]

Where did the settler start your save was for 3960bc not 4000bc. Cardinal sin posting save where you already moved the settler.

GLH is good on maps like this where the terrain is jagged and you can place multiple coastal cities. Even better if you have an island nearby. This helps with trade routes too. By Immortal level you should know which wonders are good. Mids and GLH are probably two of the best. A map like this may make Colossus good too. On a huge map I can spam 20-40+ coastal cities. Here the capital has not much room for cottages so GLH is even more powerful. Plus the double production on lighthouses.

Yes working every single tile in Civ 4 is very unusual early game. Overlap helps with cottages. If you are spamming cities for GLH wonder then overlap makes more sense as you could have 4 trade routes earning 3-4+ commerce each.

I would not be building cities without a food resource in it's inner ring. Same goes for whale site. Stone is nice for wonders. With all the forest you can probably chop stone wonders quickly. Hanging Garden is great if you have 10-15+ cities by 1ads. 15 free pop.

Maybe 4 cities by 2000bc will be tough here. All that forest will slow down settlers. Plus the start is slowed down by the fishing boat. 13 turns for a fishing boat is a long while. I wonder if double worker could be good here?

I tested out huts with warriors. Primary result seemed to be 2 or 4 barb warriors. On a good dice roll the 2 barbs die. Bad dice roll they kill your warrior. Not tested to see if they immedicately attack the city or not.

 

[TruePurple]

Mids and GLH are probably two of the best.

"mids" is?

 

[AcaMetis]

Pyramids.

 

[Gumbolt]

So if you go BW-fishing and chop you could have 2 workers by time fishing is ready. Then chop hard for workboat and then settler hammers. Overflow into workboat from settler. Pends if you chop/whip workboat/ settler.

 

[TruePurple]

Where did the settler start your save was for 3960bc not 4000bc. Cardinal sin posting save where you already moved the settler.

Not far. But even if you figure a different location for original city because low food specials elsewhere, you should figure original settler position based on what you can see at the time. Also taking too long to make a city is costly.

 

[soundjata]

Indeed one turn lost in the beginning of the game equals to the overall output of your empire on the decisive turn of the game (the last turn where your output matters)

It could be thousands of

 

[TruePurple]

So if you go BW-fishing and chop you could have 2 workers by time fishing is ready. Then chop hard for workboat and then settler hammers. Overflow into workboat from settler. Pends if you chop/whip workboat/ settler.

Out of curiosity, what tech and build were you thinking after?

I tried it your way, and it did not work well. As I thought one issue your way is chopping lots of forest to compensate for being slow to start building boats in the first place. It also sets you back in tech. Also in order to chop forest your way I must use worker times that could be used for development.

To repeat the opening I tried before and seems to work well.

Research fishing. Build warrior. Work forest 2f/p
When city radius expands change worked tile to fur 1f 2p 1t. Warrior will finish at the same turn you get fishing.

Build Fishing Ship keeping working fur tile. City will get to size two in the same turn you finish FS. Researching BW.

Start work on worker, fishing ship gets to fish tile (torn between fish tile because more food and clam because much less travel time) You will be able to whip worker finished shortly after getting BW.

My way has me further ahead in tech and land development while most importantly preserving the forests for chopping latter.

Also having two workers that early isn't all that useful, limited in what they can do without even wheel yet and having burned through much forest.

 

[sampsa]

To repeat the opening I tried before and seems to work well.

Research fishing. Build warrior. Work forest 2f/p
When city radius expands change worked tile to fur 1f 2p 1t. Warrior will finish at the same turn you get fishing.

Build Fishing Ship keeping working fur tile. City will get to size two in the same turn you finish FS. Researching BW.

Start work on worker, fishing ship gets to fish tile (torn between fish tile because more food and clam because much less travel time) You will be able to whip worker finished shortly after getting BW.

My way has me further ahead in tech and land development while most importantly preserving the forests for chopping latter.

Also having two workers that early isn't all that useful, limited in what they can do without even wheel yet and having burned through much forest.

Preserving forests for chopping later is in general a bad idea, because 20 immediately is a lot better than 20 or 30 later. Chopping early allows you to expand faster, which is very important, perhaps the most important thing in the early game. Teching fishing first always leads to a very slow start. Slow is bad.

 

[sampsa]

T50

Spoiler :

BW-fishing-sailing-hunting-AH-archery-(masonry). Mine pigs, chop settler, boats. 3rd city for intercontinental trade routes and to grab pigs. Defence is very light (1 archer and a fog buster up north), but no barb activity yet really.

Note how I'm making more income T50 than your T74, because I have expanded so I am working much more tiles and have trade routes. And the difference will grow very rapidly from here, when my cities will grow.

 

[Gumbolt]

So where was the settler 4000bc? Moving away from a plains hill loses you 1H a turn where if you start workboat can be an issue.

The key thing for me. You have a unique Unit that can move 3 tiles and you start with all that forest. Only the Indians can move onto a forest grassland/plain or non hill tile and chop or road it straight away. That is huge.

No idea what your workers were improving instead. Mining early on is often not great.

I can't comment on your 2 attempts as I have not seen what you did.