First moves and getting those huts.

[TruePurple]

So where was the settler 4000bc?

I uploaded turn 4k, see for yourself.

I also asked how to indicate a tile, and I don't believe anyone answered me.

 

[TruePurple]

T50

Spoiler :

BW-fishing-sailing-hunting-AH-archery-(masonry). Mine pigs, chop settler, boats. 3rd city for intercontinental trade routes and to grab pigs. Defence is very light (1 archer and a fog buster up north), but no barb activity yet really.

Note how I'm making more income T50 than your T74, because I have expanded so I am working much more tiles and have trade routes. And the difference will grow very rapidly from here, when my cities will grow.

I already said that fishing BW shows to be better than BW fishing, try for yourself.

You also ignore my point about overlap with capital.

For city on Island I've been using the hill, a extra production tile for city tile

 

[sampsa]

I also asked how to indicate a tile, and I don't believe anyone answered me.

I don't understand the question.

I already said that fishing BW shows to be better than BW fishing, try for yourself.

I don't need to try it to know it's worse though. Earlier chopping and mined pigs is great.

You also ignore my point about overlap with capital.

Oh I am reserving the right to ignore points I don't agree with.

For city on Island I've been using the hill, a extra production tile for city tile

But with my city placement you need to settle where I did to grab pigs.

 

[TruePurple]

I don't understand the question.

"X tile is the tile I am talking about." How do I let you know which tile is X without a screenshot or a elaborate description of it and what's around it?

I don't need to try it to know it's worse though. Earlier chopping and mined pigs is great.

Fished fish is better than mined pig. 6f (with harbor) 2 energy verses 3f 2 production. Or 8 resources verses 5. Also eventually you want pastured pig on a hill, not mined as that gives more resources (plus the trade resource)

I did try it both ways. Your earlier chopping is a utter waste. Wasting wood for being worser off. With so much forest gone, what exactly are you going to use to chop for great LH and then pyramid?

I am even experimenting with getting math quickly and chopping 30p for lighthouse and stuff.

What's wrong with not crowding your cap? Cap has bonus stuff for being cap plus can use stuff like bureaucracy to get wonders easier.

Maybe the start location is better than my location. I was going to protest you didn't see the island to know you'd have a way to use the pigs but I guess you can see the edge. But it could have been a resource on the water you couldn't use, with the pig access location

 

[Gumbolt]

Can we see your latest save? I would love to see what you have done.

 

[TruePurple]

Can we see your latest save? I would love to see what you have done.

I'm still working it out.

 

[sampsa]

"X tile is the tile I am talking about." How do I let you know which tile is X without a screenshot or a elaborate description of it and what's around it?

I don't know how I can help. Just grab a screenshot.

Fished fish is better than mined pig. 6f (with harbor) 2 energy verses 3f 2 production. Or 8 resources verses 5. Also eventually you want pastured pig on a hill, not mined as that gives more resources (plus the trade resource)

Harbor does nothing for food, you mean lighthouse. There is no energy, is commerce.

I already explained this to you once, but I understand that there is lot of new knowledge for you to grasp. You are comparing apples to oranges. A lighthoused fish costs 30 to improve and even with ORG a lighthouse is another 30. You can't compare something that requires you to tech nothing (you start with mining) that you can set up with 4 worker turns vs something that you need two techs (fishing, sailing) and 60. Yes of course 62 is much better than 23, but that is not relevant. The other is very cheap to attain and the other is expensive. You will have both in no time, no worries (as proven in my T50 screenshot).

As you can see on my T50 screenshot, I have already pastured the capital pigs. So yes, you are right, the mine is meant to be temporary. That doesn't mean it's bad.

 

[TruePurple]

I already explained this to you once, but I understand that there is lot of new knowledge for you to grasp.

Please don't be rudely condescending.
Moderator Action: Please don't react like this to people who are trying to help you. --NZ

A lighthoused fish costs 30 to improve and even with ORG a lighthouse is another 30. You can't compare something that requires you to tech nothing (you start with mining) that you can set up with 4 worker turns vs something that you need two techs (fishing, sailing) and 60. Yes of course 62 is much better than 23, but that is not relevant. The other is very cheap to attain and the other is expensive. You will have both in no time, no worries (as proven in my T50 screenshot).

Building a worker with a size 1 city costs you alot of turns. BW takes alot more research than fishing so you can't even chop for awhile. And then once you get a worker it can't do anything for awhile while it gets to the pig hill and then mines unless you want to chop first and then the pig mine takes even longer. Meanwhile you are losing out on research. I'd say a clam with FB is at least as good as a mined pig.

A FB clam can be set up much quicker for greater benefit earlier while letting the city grow and by chopping less woods you have that wood available for latter. Having to chop lots of wood and wait much longer to get benefit while losing out on research is not "cheap".

 

[antimony]

"X tile is the tile I am talking about." How do I let you know which tile is X without a screenshot or a elaborate description of it and what's around it?

Well there is the Alt+S shortcut to put a marker on the map where you can write text (and the Alt+X shortcut for the city cross).

 

[sampsa]

Please don't be rudely condescending.

I am not. I am patient.

Building a worker with a size 1 city costs you alot of turns. BW takes alot more research than fishing so you can't even chop for awhile. And then once you get a worker it can't do anything for awhile while it gets to the pig hill and then mines unless you want to chop first and then the pig mine takes even longer. Meanwhile you are losing out on research. I'd say a clam with FB is at least as good as a mined pig.

Building a worker always takes a lot of turns. As has already been explained to you, it doesn't help to grow to size two, because you are working unimproved tiles or you are diverting 30 to a boat. Just try it yourself. By building a worker size 1 you win a lot of worker turns. People in general value 1 workerT to be worth roughly 5.

I already explained you that my worker first mined the pigs, then started chopping. The timing was perfect on top of it. You are not losing out on research. An improved clam (42) is around as good as a mined pig (23), but as already explained the latter is much cheaper to set up.

A FB clam can be set up much quicker for greater benefit earlier while letting the city growm and by chopping less woods you have that wood available for latter. Having to chop lots of wood and wait much longer to get benefit while losing out on research is not "cheap".

No, it can't be set up quicker at all, just try it yourself. I had a mined pigs hill on T15 and a worker that has the ability to produce 20 in 3T at the cost of a forest. Then you can have any amount of work boats very quickly.

There are loads and loads of forest on this disgrace of a map script, so you should not be saving them at all. Chop immediately to gain max benefit.

 

[konata_LS]

I'd say a clam with FB is at least as good as a mined pig.

Generally speaking, the clam vs the mined pig is situational. It depends on the leader traits and what you need in the next few turns of your game. For example, if you quickly settled 5 cities and need to get Pottery or Writing, working the clam is definitely better than a non riverside mined pig, because the clam gives 2 (3 if you play as FIN leaders). But if you play as a IMP leader and are building a settler, working the mined pig is better than working the clam, as IMP bonus of settlers only applies to .

One of the downsides of the clam is the 30 workboat is consumed, while the worker who mines the pig is not consumed and will be useful for chopping or roading later.

 

[antimony]

What's wrong with not crowding your cap? Cap has bonus stuff for being cap plus can use stuff like bureaucracy to get wonders easier.

It is basically the issue that I mentioned earlier which is that you have more good tiles that you can work initially, so eventually your capital could work them all but if you have to wait lots of turns for that to happen, then you're losing what those tiles would give you each turn, vs. having a neighbor city working them. Also when you whip the capital and lose some population, you are losing the tiles unless another city can take them up, until that city whip, and you return them to capital, etc.

You are right that with bureaucracy you want your capital to work the high commerce tiles especially, but at that point your capital may still be only size 10 or so, and there are 20 tiles in it's work area, so there is still much to share.

Someone mentioned cottages. They need to be worked every turn to grow, so if you have a capital with lots of rivers, then build those cottages early and have a neighbor city work them when the capital can't, and by the time you have a big bureaucracy capital they are villages or towns, making them give much more.

The neighbor cities won't be as strong as the capital and that's ok, they will also have time to improve other tiles by the time the capital takes back the shared tiles.

Maybe the start location is better than my location. I was going to protest you didn't see the island to know you'd have a way to use the pigs but I guess you can see the edge. But it could have been a resource on the water you couldn't use, with the pig access location

2 production in the city center is very good as you know. This can reduce the initial worker (or workboat) production by a few turns, so if that finishes earlier tiles are improved earlier and everything finishes earlier. So if you have a chance to get a city center with 2 (or 3, e.g. stone or marble on a hill), it would require a very clear reason to not tke it. We don't have the 4000 AD start so it's tough to see what information was available on turn 0 and whether that move was a clear choice at the time.

 

[TruePurple]

We don't have the 4000 AD start so it's tough to see what information was available on turn 0 and whether that move was a clear choice at the time.

I uploaded it in a earlier post. I'll see about editing a upload to my OP as well. Regardless I see now that the start location was clearly superior. I only moved to capture the pig and fish in my cap.

*edit* done, now 4000 save uploaded to my OP to make it easy to find.

 

[konata_LS]

3rd city for intercontinental trade routes

If there are some islands to settle, wouldn't you consider chopping the Great LightHouse ? With so many coastal spots, GLH is probably the best way to compensate the lack of rivers.

 

[sampsa]

If there are some islands to settle, wouldn't you consider chopping the Great LightHouse ? With so many coastal spots, GLH is probably the best way to compensate the lack of rivers.

Yes, I am going for GLH. There is an insane amount of forest, we are ORG so it should be easy to get. Of course it's so powerful here that maybe I am risking too much. Was playing very quickly anyway and it's annoying to play without BUG/BUFFY.

 

[antimony]

A FB clam can be set up much quicker for greater benefit earlier while letting the city grow and by chopping less woods you have that wood available for latter. Having to chop lots of wood and wait much longer to get benefit while losing out on research is not "cheap".

Chopping is always trading production now for production potential later. But you need to consider that 20 production when your empire only produces 3/turn provides more acceleration power than when it produces 10/turn. If you're close to Mathematics you can save the woods for the 30 production instead, but Math is not usually researched until T60 or so even on a very fast start. The other consideration is saving them for a wonder, but from a quick look at @sampsa's screenshot I see 5 forests still up in capital, so that should be plenty, in addition to whip overflow and "regular" production.

 

[TruePurple]

it's annoying to play without BUG/BUFFY.

Why did you play without them? Because my save was without them? I can't get those to work.

 

[sampsa]

Why did you play without them? Because my save was without them? I can't get those to work.

I have only BUFFY installed, but your save is without it.

 

[TruePurple]

I have only BUFFY installed, but your save is without it.

So is that your indirect way of saying if the save doesn't have it then you can't use it?

 

[Gumbolt]

Thank you for uploading the 4000bc save.

Moving away from the plains hill was a mistake. 12 turn worker had you settled in place. You moved 1 tile so effectively 16 turn worker. Sampsa actually moved the settler back to where it had started from.