First part of Ethiopia's Axum obelisk arrives home from Italy

[Knight-Dragon]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4484813.stm

Ancient tombs found near obelisk

Archaeologists have found a vast new network of royal tombs in Ethiopia, near the site where the 1,700-year-old Axum obelisk is to be re-erected.

Experts using sophisticated imaging equipment discovered the burial chambers, even older than the obelisk, under a 1963 car park, said the UN.

The stone monoliths were originally erected to mark burial sites for deceased members of the aristocracy.

The final piece of the Axum obelisk was flown home from Italy on Monday.

The whole structure - seen as a national religious treasure - is to be re-erected in September following the Ethiopian rainy season.

The obelisk was stolen by fascist Italian troops in 1937.

'Cultural tourism'

The archaeological team which discovered the new burial sites was sent to Axum to prepare for the re-erection of the obelisk.

Unesco Director-General Koichiro Matsuura said it was likely that some of the tombs were still intact.

"The site is a royal necropolis used by several dynasties before the Christian era," Unesco said, adding that the network stretches far beyond the perimeter of the present World Heritage site.

"The opening of these new tombs to the public would represent, moreover, an additional asset for the site, which, by boosting cultural tourism, would contribute to the economic development of the country," Mr Matsuura said.

 

[Gagliaudo]

Well, we Italians have given back that obelisk... now...

- please (s'il vous plait), French frends, give us back Leonardo's "MONNA LISA" (just to begin... the list could be large... )
- (maybe more important) Swiss banks :thumbdown: give back Hebrews (dunno who, maybe some association which cares about this) LOTS of gold/money/other that Nazis plundered and put there...

 

[Verbose]

Well, we Italians have given back that obelisk... now...

- please (s'il vous plait), French frends, give us back Leonardo's "MONA LISA" (just to begin... the list could be large... )

Err...
I actually think Lionardo himself sold that one to the king of France, so your quarrell would be with the not-so-patriotic artist.

Honestly, France losing the Napoleonic wars did mean the return of most of the booty in 1815. Had 'la gioconda' been part of the plunder it would have been returned.

 

[robertoross24]

its all wingeing if you have lost something.......tough

 

[Gagliaudo]

Err...
I actually think Lionardo himself sold that one to the king of France, so your quarrell would be with the not-so-patriotic artist.

Honestly, France losing the Napoleonic wars did mean the return of most of the booty in 1815. Had 'la gioconda' been part of the plunder it would have been returned.

Verbose is right and I was WRONG.

However, Congress in Wien said that "arts plundered" would have been returned, BUT a non-little part of this order wasn't effectively execute...

 

[Communisto]

its all wingeing if you have lost something.......tough

says the man from the country that once stretched it's evil hand throughout the world and snatched the treasures of people from Ireland to Tasmania

 

[Verbose]

However, Congress in Wien said that "arts plundered" would have been returned, BUT a non-little part of this order wasn't effectively execute...

Yeah, well, it's possible pre-unification Italy got screwed a bit in Vienna. The Austrians certainly picked up plenty of Italian territory.

 

[robertoross24]

yea im half italian and half scot and live in england......and since you live in canada
you should be grateful for its exsistance

edit: sorry for above statement i took great offence to the nonence that
england was evil....

 

[Plotinus]

If you were really sorry for saying that, you would delete it instead of leaving it up. I think Canada would have existed quite happily without the English - indeed, the early settlers would have been much better off without the English turning up and killing them all the time. Toronto, in any case, was founded by the French.

 

[robertoross24]

ah but present canada was created by the british and anything that has created you you should be happy with...

 

[Constantine]

If you were really sorry for saying that, you would delete it instead of leaving it up. I think Canada would have existed quite happily without the English - indeed, the early settlers would have been much better off without the English turning up and killing them all the time. Toronto, in any case, was founded by the French.

I think not, the first permant settlement was an English, the French maintained a fur trading fort nearby for sometime but never settled the area.

 

[wit>trope]

build a new obelisk? I think you're missing the point. the obelisk is 2 and a half THOUSAND years old. that'd be like saying "let's remake the Bayeaux tapestry" it's part of their history, it's theirs, and they want it back, I agree with Yom's comparison.

Do you think the poor people who actually made the obelisk would have wanted 6 million euros spent to transport it? Or would these poor people who worked their backs off making it have wanted the 6 million spent to help out their fellow poor brothers and sisters? The answer is clear.

They could have just moved it to the Ethiopian embassy in Italy or put a plaque and Ethiopian flag near it -- they probably already had something like that.

they were given as gifts (or bought) rather than this Obelisk, which was stolen.

Apparently there's some dispute about whether it was stolen since it was taken after a war.

No real point arguing about it now that it's already been moved back. I am happy for the Ethiopians even though I still do think it was a waste of money. Maybe if it cost 5,000 euros to move it, it would have been a good idea. But 6 million euros? I'd rather have 6 million euros in the bank than have an obelisk in my backyard (unless I was able to sell the obelisk for more than 6 million euros of course)

 

[robertoross24]

if everyones asking for things back that they lost then I think england should start asking america for the 13 back......
o and while where at it italy should ask europe to bow down and call itself the roman empire

 

[plarq]

I remembered that Chinese also lost lots of works of art during 19th and 20th century.
Some of them are bought(not brought) back to China,by unofficial collectors.
Well,I think retrieving lost treasures is the right of nation,but it's not divine or absolute right.Not retrieving lost treasures,IMO,doesn't count as betrayal of country or anti-patriot.

 

[robertoross24]

good post plarq

 

[Kosez]

Italy didn't win the war against Ethiopia/Abessinia. Italians had guns and poison gas, but Abessinians had a good tactic, they castrated captured Italian soldiers and let them free, so other soldiers quickly lost their will to fight for Duce's pride.

 

[robertoross24]

right....!..........but they still held it for a while........and thats beyond the point really

 

[Gagliaudo]

Italy didn't win the war against Ethiopia/Abessinia. Italians had guns and poison gas, but Abessinians had a good tactic, they castrated captured Italian soldiers and let them free, so other soldiers quickly lost their will to fight for Duce's pride.

??? I really don't understand...
Italia won the war.
Every war isn't good, mostly if it's an invading/colonialistic war.
But Italia fought that war exactly like EVERY Western power in Africa/Asia/Oceania/America, using his better militar technology.
I can't understand the Kosez 'apology' of Ethiopian methods (tactic??? castrating people is a tactic??? I'm really ignorant, I didn't know this... ) exactly like I condamn the use of poison gas.
I want remember to Kosez that Abissian received LARGE helps by GreatBritain and France. The "good" REAL tactic - guerrilla - was the UNIQUE tactic Abissians were able to use. And that wasn't able to avoid the DEFEAT.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

You're all missing the point. Italy's decision was a nice gesture of reconciliation, not the fulfillment of international law. I suppose they didn't absolutely have to return it (and the 6 million euros would not have been given to Ethiopia at any rate) but they decided to. Good for them.

 

[Gagliaudo]

Eran, you're surely right. However there was already an agreement between Italia and Ethiopia: Italia would built a modern great hospital in Ethiopia, and kept the obelisk (or Obelix??? I'm turning crazy...), but I don't know how it ends this affair...