First Three Social Policies

[DaveMcW]

A 6 hammer hill never goes out of style.

That's only +2 over a Chemistry mine.

Build the manufactory on a grassland for +4 all game.

 

[Civsassin]

That's only +2 over a Chemistry mine.

Build the manufactory on a grassland for +4 all game.

If I build the specialist unique building, I usually put it on a grassland tile to make it easily workable.

 

[snarzberry]

I tend to agree. Liberty is awesome to get that settler and worker out and begin expanding early. I've found that delaying the NC in favor of getting 3-4 cities out early keeps me tech competitive on Immortal.

I'm a national college first player normally. Sometimes I go two cities then NC. The way I play the opening I can get NC built in the 40's and then if I want to expand I'll take the free settler policy after that and maybe hard build one or two as well.

If you're having success that way I'll have to look into it as an alternative. One thing I remember about expanding as you do is the relationship hit for settling cities too aggressively. Do you run into that problem and does it affect your RA and trading game? I'd like to know approximately what turn you normally got the NC built, and are you able to defend against an early aggressor if they rush you?

 

[lilnev]

Liberty - Free Settler - Patronage. Gotta get the NC up quick (a one tech detour -- e.g. Calendar, is about the limit), and sometimes some less critical worker techs have to wait until Medieval is unlocked. If you've got Calendar, then Philo - Theo is the shortest route; but often there's time for BW - IW - MC; and Currency seems reasonable for the Arabs.

 

[eltoddo]

i used to do the free settler policy but i think it is kind of a waste now. settlers are cheap... i don't think this policy is worth cost. i'll take the free worker policy instead and then put policy towards piety to get unhappiness reduction sooner.

 

[topresch]

The only reason I'm considering something different atm is the idea proposed (I think) by Martin that getting to Patronage before raising cultural policy costs. I haven't yet tried that out, but my gut then says to avoid culture bonuses are much as possile.

Now then, maybe I'm a dunce here, but couldn't you just pick the "Postpone SP until later"-option in setup? Then you can just amass culture without spending them until you want to.. Or is that anathema for you as a player, to modify in the startup?

 

[Civsassin]

i used to do the free settler policy but i think it is kind of a waste now. settlers are cheap... i don't think this policy is worth cost. i'll take the free worker policy instead and then put policy towards piety to get unhappiness reduction sooner.

The only problem with building your own settlers is that your city stops growing in the process. Early on, growth is critical to keeping up with the AI technologically. I've found the early settler to be very helpful for early growth.

 

[Guardian_PL]

The only problem with building your own settlers is that your city stops growing in the process. Early on, growth is critical to keeping up with the AI technologically. I've found the early settler to be very helpful for early growth.

Not only that, but that SP is essential in winning the race to best city areas - within several turns boom and you've got three cities with rapid luxuries gains etc.

 

[KevinMiles90000]

I've been trying France with Liberty-Collective rule and building scout, scout, settler. 3 cities go up fast, you gobble up some prime real esate/resources and then rush buy workers and then libraries/NC after that.

(this is on pangea/low sea level so the 2 scouts are very useful for scouting the massive amount of land that is there)

 

[RedRover57]

For me, in most situations on Emperor difficulty or lower, I find that my best start is Tradition - Liberty - Citizenship - Meritocracy, and I stay at one city until the NC is built. The exception would be in cases where I absolutely have to grab other city sites quickly, in which case I may go Liberty - Collective Rule. But even in this case there is always the option to stay one strong city and build up a tech lead plus combat units, then just take the land back from your neighbors. I just find that having a good start in terms of capitol growth and economy works better for me in most cases. Also, by doing the one city NC start strategy you can research IW quickly after the NC is built and drop your first settler where there is iron.

 

[Roghar]

I tend to go with the Tradition -> Liberty -> Citizenship -> Meritocracy in most games, unless I'm after an NC start or want early wonders, in which case I'll stick with Tradition

I've stopped taking the SP that gives you a settler - it's nice, but only gives you something in the early part of the game, and is a precursor to a miserable SP. I like my SPs to give me something throughout

On Piety - I think it's value varies greatly with difficulty level. Although it's best policy is the happiness boost, I find that I used it a lot on lower difficult levels (Emperor and below), where I could get substantially positive happiness and utilise Piety for more golden ages and bonus culture. Playing on Immortal now, I don't have enough happiness to justify it, and spending 3 policies just to get the one useful one isn't worth it. Better to chase one of the happiness policies in otherwise useful branches

Honor - unless warmongering very heavily (like it with Japan) it probably isnt' a very useful branch, and even then is questionable. One synergy worth noting however is (apologies can't remember policy names) the one that gives you a happy per garrisoned unit, combined with the Tradition policy that removes garrison upkeep and gives +100% city range attack. That gives you a lot of happy if warmongering and puppeting with no upkeep, and a substantial standing army if you ever need it, while the city range attack boost is very useful if on the defensive. While you still have to build the units, I tend to use mostly my obsolete troops for city minding purposes.

 

[homerj]

I like going Tradition->Liberty->Free Worker if I can get at least one culture goody hut.

Then that's actually my first worker. It allows me to start scout,monument,granary. The benefits of the granary outweigh whatever the worker would build first. Then by the time I pop that free worker, it can do something useful like improve a calendar improvement right off the bat.

Also by the time I get the free GE, I have the techs lined up for a free wonder, either the GL if I'm going spaceship or domination, or Stonehenge if cultural--sometimes I'll go Oracle.

 

[bhavv]

If I'm playing Babylon I take a GS from Meritocracy and build two academies in my capital to blitz through the early tech tree.

If I'm playing anyone else, I've been taking a GE and rushing a wonder, but now I'm thinking of trying out a manufactory instead.

 

[spider1]

If I build the specialist unique building, I usually put it on a grassland tile to make it easily workable.

I farm the grassland for the extra food to support a manufactory on a hill. Early in the game a 6 hammer hill helps. Later in the game with all the bonus's from city buildings it's worth even more. For all other GP buildings, I do put them on a grassland tile to make them more workable. However, I rarely make the specialist buildings once the game is past the classical period. GP after that I normally use for other purposes.

edit to say: I guess all I'm talking about here is the GP you get from Meritocracy or the scientist if you're playing Babylon. After that, I've never gotten a GP early enough in the game to temp me to use them to make a building. I normally rush a wonder, bulb a tech, start a golden age or someting with them.

 

[bhavv]

Playing as Inca, I put my manufactory on a Sheep for a 1 and 6 tile since all the other hill tiles I have were either river or mountainside for lots of food, plus they might have strat resources on them:

Spoiler :

I'm going to try out a small 4 city empire in this game.

I went Tradition > Liberty > Citizenship > Meritocracy, and my next policy will be the free Settler.

 

[neilkaz]

I am seeing a lot of players using Tradition > Liberty > Citizenship > Meritocracy.

Are you guys sure that this is optimal for the long term when not taking any more policies from the tradition branch?

thx .. neilkaz ..

 

[bhavv]

Are you guys sure that this is optimal for the long term when not taking any more policies from the tradition branch?

The free GP from Meritocracy gives you a bigger bonus than taking the tradition policies first does. A free manufactory allows you to build the early wonders a lot faster than Aristocracy allows, and it gives you a boost throughout the rest of the game, so yes I do believe that is the most optimal approach.

For the longer run, my plan would be:

Tradition > Liberty > Citizenship > Meritocracy > Collective Rule > Aristocracy > Republic.

Representation can be picked up with the Oracle to reduce future policy costs and trigger a golden age (Think of the oracle itself giving -33% culture costs and a free Golden, mighty helpful). I like to wait to take legalism after my first four cities already have monuments, and maybe even temples built and landed elite after that.

For my current small empire plan, I only trained one settler in my capital after building a monument. My first worker was free with citizenship, then I rush bought my third settler, and then two more workers from gold made from selling my luxaries. My fourth settler will come from Collective Rule, and a fouth worker from a city state.

 

[snarzberry]

I am seeing a lot of players using Tradition > Liberty > Citizenship > Meritocracy.

Are you guys sure that this is optimal for the long term when not taking any more policies from the tradition branch?

thx .. neilkaz ..

Well, it's still wide open for experimentation certainly. But the free worker and free great person right at the start of the game is very strong. I can't look past it to be honest, it's all I see. Let's think about what you're giving up to take them, it would be the free culture building policy and landed elite. They are some good SP's.

They are still available for you to take after the Liberty opening but by then they are competing with middle game social branches. I often find myself scratching my head on the 4th or 5th SP choice as it can be a really tough choice.

It must be a royal pain in the but for the developers but I think they've tipped the scales too far into Liberty's favor this time, which they did for Tradition last time

 

[bhavv]

Legalism is best saved for getting free temples or opera houses. Its a complete waste using it to get 4 free monuments since they are cheap enough to build in your first 4 cities anyway.

Landed Elite is also more helpful midway through the game once you have more cities placed, and enough happiness to grow them.

The free worker, GP and settler are much better to have initially as they speed up your initial growth much more than the Tradition tree does.

 

[Tabarnak]

The free worker, GP and settler are much better to have initially as they speed up your initial growth much more than the Tradition tree does.

I disagree. The bigger hammer output from LE is superior than a free settler and worker. It's so easy to steal a worker or 2 and buy a settler that i find Liberty useless for the most part of the game. Only the free GE at the end with meritocracy is appealing for me.

But with NC first Liberty is stronger than going 3-4 cities before NC. Cultural cs bring you enough culture to let down temples. Your new settled cities under Legalism expand borders immediatly and you can save money from tiles buying. This allow you to settle in more potential spots. You can also replace monuments by warriors if you are planning to upgrade to swordmen or simply start libraries and bring research faster. Cities also grow faster, allowing libraries to give higher science bonus earlier.

Free 4 hammers from a ge? LE can bring 12 more from 4 cities. 3 each. And a lot faster.

But i think it's more a kind of playstyle than anything else. I sincerely think that they did a good job balancing both of them. But when i play against humans, liberty takers are always falling down somewhere around 800 BC.