Five take on the world revisited (5CCC - deity)

[Nad]

Looks like a rough situation and we've lost a lot of units. Great work on the tech catch-up but I hope this does not prove to be a bad war for us. Got it, will see what I can do about the Aztecs.

 

[microbe]

It's actually not that bad. We lost some immortals, but their age is gone anyway and we save a lot of upkeep cost. We can build knights to upgrade to cavalry soon, so who need immortals?

We are at the 4th turn of the war. Since this is our first war with Aztecs, I expect them to talk in a couple of turns?

Most of Aztec units in our territory are slow and they can just pillage at most. Our cities should be OK.

We are only 4 techs short to get into IA. With only Sumeria seemingly in it we have a good chance of using our free tech. The only problem is GA will end soon.

 

[Aggie]

Nad? How are you doing?

 

[Nad]

Nad? How are you doing?

Just finished .

Five Take On The World Revisited - Surviving the Aztec Ambush


Inherited Turn, 650AD: we have slaves next to the northern Aztec city of Leidren, but they're not on a road so I can't save them from cavalry or knights, so they may as well continue working. Wake up slaves asleep in other cities. Persepolis and Gordium train muskets, the other three cities train knights.

IT: Sumeria renegotiates iron deal, the cost goes up from 13gpt to 35gpt but we're in no position to cancel at the moment. Dutch recapture Leidren. We lose 3 immortals that were in the open, fail to kill any Aztec cavalry although one attacking Gordiu retreats.

Turn 1, 660AD: we cannot defend our ivory and Arbela at the same time. One has to give, so musket moves back to the city. We only have one road connection between Arbela and the other cities, and unfortunately Aztec troops are within striking range of that road, so if I move muskets from Persepolis they will end their turn within striking range of Aztec MDI and crusaders. We need more marsh cleared quickly.

6/6 ancient cav dies attacking Aztec 3/4 cav on flats, only doing 1 damage and promoting it . Kill 2 Aztec cavalry however. Upgrade trebuchets and catapult to cannon. War weariness becoming an issue and 2 specialists have to be hired at Bactra.

IT: lose an immortal and an archer. Lose some slaves to an Aztec cavalry appearing from the fog from Dutch borders. Don't know how many slaves were in the stack, just a couple I think. Gordium riots because of Aztec units trampling all aross its worked tiles and the idiot governor reassigns to forest (0 commerce) from a 4 commerce tile, so not enough for lux rate to keep everyone happy.

Turn 2, 670AD: kill 2 cavalry, lose a 5/6 ancient cav to a 1/4 Aztec cav on flat ground, and promote it . Hire taxman in Gordium to prevent further riots due to Aztec movement.

IT: Dutch and Aztecs going at each other hammer and tongs, spares us more misery. No units lost, kill 2 Aztec units attacking Persepolis.

Sumerians building Suffrage They're running away with the tech race...

Turn 3, 680AD: Aztecs still refuse to acknowledge envoy. If they continue to refuse for much longer we'll be in serious danger of losing cities.

The action is hotting up around Arbela, that's where all the Aztec grunts are headed and we can do no more than turtle to protect the city. Upgrade a pike and archer.

IT: kill Aztec cavalry, no losses. Ivory spared for the moment, but other tiles are being pillaged.

Turn 4, 690AD: GA about to end, increase lux to 20% to be sure of no riots.

IT: more pillaging but we haven't lost a unit now for 3 turns so situation is stabilizing for us. GA ends.

Turn 5, 700AD: Aztecs finally talk to us. Take the opportunity to attack all vulnerable Aztec targets, and we kill 3 muskets, a longbow and a MDI, losing one longbow. Pillage Aztec ivory + a couple of other tiles (didn't have fast units that could reach and pillage Aztec horses in one turn). This gets us a (slight) winning peace, as we pick up wm + 2g.

Sort through cities, all 5 set to bank. Lux to 10%. We have 312g + 50gpt with 5 banks ordered up, so our economy is actually quite good, thaks mainly to the number of rivers we have.

IT: booted by Aztecs.

Turn 6, 710AD: troops head back for cities.

IT: Dutch and Aztecs continue to fight in our territory.

Turn 7, 720AD: set workers to repair some of the war damage.

Turn 8, 730AD: we have no embassy with Zulu, so g=found one for 97g...they will undoubtedly be important allies later when we fight the Sumerians.

Turn 9, 740AD: decide to take a risk and sell only saltpeter to Zulu for wm, astronomy, 53g + 8gpt. We're now just 3 essential techs away from the industrial age, and only Sumeria has got there so far, so a slingshot is still a distinct possibility.

Turn 10, 750AD: little mm point for next player, there are a bunch of workers on Arbela's wheat, they should plant a forest on it to get the city to 20spt.

Next player should have some good trading opportunities. We have 500+ gold with 58gpt and 5 banks about to complete in the next few turns. IMO we should buy physics as soon as we can so we can watch for the ToG/Magnetism broker.

Patience is still the name of the game. The industrial age will bring our biggest opportunities, so we mustn't lose our heads now and panic. Sumeria is quite far ahead but we have a very good chance in this game by pitting our neighbours against each other. We would really like the Zulu and Sumeria to have a go at each other! We're actually in a better position here than we were in the original. Although our tech position is worse, we still have a clean rep, and that's a big advantage.

 

[Aggie]

Looks like a very decent set of turns.

ROSTER:
Nad
gozpel------up
Aggie-------on deck
LKendter
Hotrod0823
microbe

 

[gozpel]

Looking good.

I got it.

 

[gozpel]

Pre-turn - Everything is as good as it gets, so no changes.

We can buy Physics now from either Sumeria or Zulu, but it would cost just about everything we got and I better wait a few turns until we have some banks. Hoping for a 2fer without any income is futile. No deals are to expire very soon, the closest is a 44gpt deal to Zulu in 7t.

760AD - Persepolis bank -> university. Income jumped from 58 to 75gpt.

770AD - Pasgadae bank -> uni
Arbela bank -> uni

103gpt now.

I buy Physics from Sumeria for 39gpt and 648g. All we can do now is to wait for a chance to get ToG before the last civ get it, right now noone but Sumeria got it.

Btw, I just noticed that Sumeria is laying rails.

780AD - Sumeria declare on Zulu!

Bactra bank -> cathedral

790AD - Aztecs and Dutch sign peace.

800AD - Nothing

810AD - Persepolis uni -> cathedral
Gordium bank -> library

820AD - Arbela uni -> knight

We don't have to pay the 44gpt to Zulu anymore. I check with Sumeria for ToG, 130gpt and 400g is doubtful.

Buy incense from Aztecs for 10gpt.

830AD - IT - Sumeria demands TM and 38g, which they get. They probably need it with their 3400+ in the kitty.

Pasgadae uni -> knight

840AD - IT - Lux-deals with Zulu expires and they won't renew it at any cost? Is our rep broken?

2 cities riots when they lost the luxes. Buy spices from Sumeria for 7gpt and 15g.

Weird, I can buy furs from Zulu now and get it for 10gpt and 17g. They must've needed it badly. Hmm, looking at the map I think Sumer took a couple of Zulu cities, that should explain it. Lucky for our rep they had an extra wine.

850AD - Nothing.

Still waiting for ToG, 689g and 156 gpt is doubtful. Hopefully someone else get it soon.

Started mining hills by P-polis to gain some more shields. We should mine the mountains too.

I hope my choice on building culture building was alright, a couple of extra knights or muskets wouldn't do much at this point. Culture is good.

 

[Aggie]

Got it. Depending in the situation (do we need to discuss?) I will play today or tomorrow.

ROSTER:
Nad
gozpel
Aggie------up
LKendter---on deck
Hotrod0823
microbe

 

[gozpel]

Just get ToG when you see it for sale and then with some luck you should get some other stuff in the trades. Our free tech will be very important, Sumeria already knows quite a few techs in the next age and we can pray for Medicine or something they don't have. But time will tell.

I couldn't think of what to do, except strengthen our culture a bit and then started on knights. Our military is rotten already and a few more units won't help us much, but still we need to start building units now to assemble something that looks like a force

 

[LKendter]

The next step is building a decent number of Cavalry. At this point that is the only way to fight Sumeria. We need to dog pile Sumeria, but I have no idea when we will be ready. I just hope it is before he gets infantry.

 

[Aggie]

I see that we are on the edge of the Industrial Age, but Sumeria doesn't want to sell ToG. I am thinking about playing a peacful 10 turns. We need the cavalry -as Lee says- and (imho) artillery. I wouldn't mind a build phase until Replaceable Parts. But this depends on us getting a shot at ToE.

 

[Nad]

I also think we should stay peaceful for now! That is what I meant by being patient. We are in a good position, attacking too early would throw that away. Although Sumeria is ahead technologically, they are not more powerful, they are no bigger than Zulu and Aztecs. And in gozpel's turn they declared war on Zulu, ,which is perfect! Let those two hammer away. Let the Aztecs continue to hammer at the Dutch...we will catch up in tech, this situation always happens in the industrial age. Right now, I think we should complete all infra and then go all out war. For me, the cavalry rush is not a good option, it would lead to far too many losses and be too attritional to be any good. This game will be decided in the age of tanks and modern armour. I would build some military for now, but only enough to defend ourselves. Once we have factories, plants, police stations, stock exchanges etc, then we should go for a proper war.

@gozpel: building was the right thing to do . Only nit-pick would be that cathedrals and colloseums should have been built before universities...we're not researching anything, so happiness improvements would have been better first choice.

 

[LKendter]

For me, the cavalry rush is not a good option, it would lead to far too many losses and be too attritional to be any good. This game will be decided in the age of tanks and modern armour.

I don't want to wait that late. Sumeria is a run away civ. If we aren't careful they will have 30+ tanks before we have even one.

 

[Aggie]

IHT: I cancel our 35 gpt for iron deal with Sumeria. They are strong enough as it is. Instead I now buy iron from the Zulu for 36 gpt (1 gpt more).

IT: Arbela: knight->knight, Gordium: library->university.

Turn 1 (860 AD) Waiting for ToG...

IT: Pasargadae: knight->knight.

Turn 2 (870 AD) Waiting for ToG...

Turn 3 (880 AD) All AI reached the IA No 2fer here. I have to buy both techs and choose the Dutch for that. But they are not interested!
So I turn to the Aztecs. I buy ToG and Magentism for 1100 gold and 106 gpt. In the same deal I swap dyes for wines, giving us a bit of a discount on the techs (about 15 gpt). Our free tech is...Nationalism
Sumeria has EVERYTHING I CAN SEE (including Fascism and Communism).We can probably forget the ToE

The Aztecs give us 1110 gold, 135 gpt and Military Tradition for Nationalism
I also sell it to the Zulu for a few useless techs (Democracy, Economics, Music Theory, Navigation and also a worker and world map). They need it to counter Sumeria. The Zulu are seriously hurting and will be kicked of the earth if the Sumerians don't stop the war soon.
The Dutch are to greedy and don't want to pay gpt. So they get nothing. I buy saltpeter for 18 gpt from the Aztecs. I also buy horses for 15 gpt from the Dutch.

I decide to go lone scientist on Steam Power. We can't get a decent pace with research I'm afraid. We might be able to steal it.

IT: The Zulu and Sumerians sign a peace treaty. Persepolis: cathedral->cav. The Dutch start Shakes.

Turn 4 (890 AD) The world is at peace. This is definatelly good for Sumeria, but otoh they can easily conquer any country they like at the moment.

IT: The Zulu demand tm and 80 gold. I give it to them. Bactra: cathedral->cav. I fire the lone scientist. Arbela: cav->cav.

Turn 5, 6 (900, 910 AD) Nothing much.

IT: Pasargadae: cav->cav. Sumeria tried to plant a spy but got caught. So they have Esionage as well.

Turn 7 (920 AD) Nothing much.

IT: Persepolis: cav->cav. The Zulu start Shakes.

Turn 8 (930 AD) Nothing much.

IT: Arbela: cav->cav. Sumeria finishes Shakes.

Turn 9 (940 AD) Nothing much. No new techs by other tribes or other interesting things.

IT: Bactra: cav->cav.

Turn 10 (950 AD) The Zulu have Medicine and the Dutch have Nationalism.

Well, Sumeria only grew stronger. 4 decent tribes vs one should be possible however. I think that we need artillery to pull it off, but we should discuss it. We now have 5 cavs and 6 knights.

 

[Aggie]

ROSTER:
Nad
gozpel
Aggie
LKendter-----up
Hotrod0823---on deck
microbe

 

[LKendter]

I also sell it to the Zulu for a few useless techs (Democracy, Economics, Music Theory, Navigation and also a worker and world map).

I am quite happy to get that world map.

=======================

We can probably forget the ToE

The AI puts a low priority on Science method. I have seen the up to Corporation before that even have Electricity. I wouldn't rule it out yet. We do have tricky timing for it.

=======================

Got it - Keep the comments coming for the next 7 hours.

 

[Nad]

I don't want to wait that late. Sumeria is a run away civ. If we aren't careful they will have 30+ tanks before we have even one.

I wouldn't want to wait that long either, but it's a case of realism. Even if we can hit Sumeria before infantry, cavs (attack 6) against rifles in large cities (minimum defence 11.1) is horrible. Add to that deity bonus for Sumeria and our limit of 5 cities, and we simply cannot afford wars where we are taking double the casualties of the AI. We can't even afford a 1:1...we must look for kill ratios of 3:1 or 4:1 at least. Cavs vs rifles can't do that. Even with tanks vs infantry it's gonna be brutal, but that is better than cavs vs rifles (or infantry)...it also gives us more time to prepare, and post-factories we can deal with unit losses better.

Nice going Aggie! From the minimap, the big advantage we have is that Sumeria is bordered by 3 civs. A dogpile will rip into them. I think when we do go to war it should be in the oscillating style we did in the original game: attack to weaken Sumeria, then pick on the Dutch to exterminate them (weak civ, gives us control of the north so we only have 2 fronts), then pick on Aztecs to weaken, then Sumeria again etc. Zulu, the furthest from us, will likely be the last target.

 

[Aggie]

I agree that WE can't hurt the Sumerians. But we don't have to attack ourselves. We can start a dogpile and counter the Sumerian attacks. That way we probably won't lose a lot of units, while the Sumerians have to fight 3 other deity AI's.

 

[microbe]

I am quite happy to get that world map.

Hm? I got us WM during my turns (see the screenie). Or people just got distracted by the 8 techs?

 

[microbe]

My opinion on the war:

I agree with Nad completely that we can't get decent kill ratio if we attack. On the other hand, however, if we don't do anything now, Sumeria will surely run away if it's left in peace.

How about we throw a dogpile and play defensively, just to slow it down? With enough rifles we can defend our cities and resources relatively easily. WW could be a big problem but we only need to do it for 20-turns and then sign peace, and let the AI fight on. If we can get an army, we could send it to pillage Sumeria.