Fix the 5th trash game

[cabert]

time's up

Next round, we'll go to 875BC, playing for the best game using ojevind's save.

Obviously, lack of worker and suboptimal city placement will need fixing in the next round.

 

[mice]

So we have Hinduism. That's great !

 

[Roland Johansen]

Good luck everyone with the new savegame!

I don't have time today, but I'll play later this week.

 

[pigswill]

Are we going to discuss strategy options before playing or play our sets and then go retrospective?

 

[cabert]

I may suggest a way, but do as you like.
I will try to build 2 or more other cities, with enough commerce (gold or just cottages) and as many workers + a few defensive units.
Going for alphabet fast + some more exploration is necessary IMHO.

 

[pigswill]

Can't decide between continued expansion or Oracle/MC. Need to continue exploration regardless. Barbs are likely to be a significant feature of this round, maybe fogbust or maybe find copper, build axes and build xp ready to rush a neighbour. Its unlikely I'll continue with Stonehenge however. Bombay is a bit too vulnerable to focus on a wonder straight away.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I would try to improve our capital with worker improvements and research the relevant technologies to do so. I cast a forgetting spell on myself, so if I don't find the copper or horses during exploring, I think that I need archers to defend myself and my worker improvements against the barbarians. I will do a bit of exploring because I like a large explored space to plan ahead my cities and I don't like the jungle area.

The gold site still looks attractive to me. Of course, we need to expand. And I agree with cabert that cottages and gold mines can fund the expansion costs.

I wouldn't build Stonehenge in Bombay. I don't think it has a chance to win the wonder race. Except of course if you want to get gold from partially building the wonder.

I could try to create the shrine (nice to have a religion), but that would hurt the expansion rate a bit. I don't know yet.

I have more detailed plans, but I won't go into them or Cabert will kill me.

Good luck everyone!

Oh, by the way, I suffered in my new single player game for the luck I had in this game. No horses, no copper and the massive numbers of barbarians are winning many battles which they should lose. Fogbusting doesn't help enough. I'm cursed.

 

[KMadCandy]

Are we going to discuss strategy options before playing or play our sets and then go retrospective?

i'm going try to not let our civilization get killed off by barbarians! if i did outright lose the game, does that disqualify me from the rest of the rounds by the way?

 

[shyuhe]

A brutal round for me. I hope the others have better luck.

Spoiler :

Bombay is nearly useless, so I have it work on a worker to chop the forest to build a monument. I continued building the worker in the capital, brought back the northern warrior and scouted with my southern warrior. I researched animal husbandry (for horses), and then hunting. I built a warrior after the worker to grow to size 4 (to allow 2 pop whips), and my warrior pops experience in the jungle.

Madras is founded some turns later, and hinduism eventually spreads to it. However, Cyrus and Brennus are now both Jewish so I swap into no religion temporarily since I'm not happy capped. Then just as I get the copper mine up, the barbs start to come. I almost lose Madras at one point, but it survives and the copper mine is hooked up again (it was pillaged once). I also finish researching iron working, and lo and behold where iron shows up.

Spoiler :

Bombay has iron in its cross! This city is actually going to be pretty good in another 20-30 turns!

I was trying to build the great wall but it gets built somewhere else. Now I'll have to build axes the old fashioned way. A barb city has conveniently popped up next to Delhi that looks like a nice target. Brennus has started to settle pretty close to the southern border, which is worrisome.

I am also currently back in hinduism as I whipped too hard in Delhi. I think the whip will wear off in another 15 turns or so.

Military: I have 2 axes, Brennus and Bismarck don't have access to metal yet. Cyrus has HA

 

[cabert]

i'm going try to not let our civilization get killed off by barbarians! if i did outright lose the game, does that disqualify me from the rest of the rounds by the way?

No but that disqualifies you from being the best game obviously. Note that even in the trash round, a losing game is just not taken into account(no fixing possible right?).

 

[pigswill]

I hope we have a better save to play from than this one:

Spoiler :

Looking at the save I thought Delhi neeeds to produce a worker, then we needed some defenders and then think about a settler. I wasn't at all happy with Bombay and decided I'd grown it to size2 (for a whip) then let it build a settler in a better location. Obviously we needed some techs to give the worker something to do then head towards alphabet and look to trade.

Research Path: Hunting (2200bc), AH (1800bc), Archery (1600bc), Writing 1120bc, Alphabet (ongoing). City maintenance seems to have built up a bit, research is currently on 40% with alphabet 42 turns away .

Recalled warrior from his skiing holiday to help explore. Archers also helped explore a bit. Found a couple of good city sites:

Already taken.

Already taken.

Delhi built a worker then a couple of archers (whipped coz we were being barbed) then a settler. As you can see Delhi's settler founded Madras near the copper. We don't need the close border penalty but we do need the metal. Bombay produced a settler eventually who settled a nice seaside resort:

Saw a couple of barb archers wander round harmlessly then about 1200bc a barb axe emerged from the deserts north of Delhi heading straight for the bright lights. She paused briefly to kill two archers and a warrior and pillage the ivory before almost killing the sole defending archer and capturing our capital!

Cyrus founded Judaism in 1480bc and converted soon after, persuading Brennus to adopt Judaism in 1280bc. We quickly got -2 diplo penalty for heathen religion changing Brennus and Cyrus from cautious to annoyed before I revolutionised to NSR whereon they resumed neutral caution.

Wonderwise Stonehenge bidl 1760, Great Wall bidl 1080, Oracle, Colossus and Glight still unclaimed.

City maintenance is a real pain in the fundament at present. I'm hoping a barb will capture (undefended) Bombay until we're ready to reclaim it.

The known world:

Overall a poor round. Partly due to poor play, partly due to losing prime city sites and also partly to do with hostile RNG.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/Trashy_pigswill_875bc.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Here's my save. Sorrry I didn't vote in the past round; I have been desperately busy.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61698/Trashy_gandhi_BC-0875-_jevind.CivWarlordsSave

Spoiler :

Summary. I have probably forgotten a couple of things.
2240 BC: warrior opened a hut west of Delhi and got 33 gold coins.
2080 BC: Workers built in Delhi. They started to build a camp on the elephant tile. Started to build new warrior.
Someone else built Stonehenge first. Started to build monument in Madras instead.
1600 BC: Contacted by Cyrus. Started to build road Delhi-Bombay.
1560 BC: Judaism discovered in a distant land.
1520 BC: Cyrus adapts Organized Religion.
1480 BC: Cyrus converts to Judaism.
1400 BC: One of my (unpromoted) warriors attacked by a damaged barbarian archer, survived. I consented to an Open Borders agreement with Cyrus.
1400 BC: Discovered AH. Went for Fishing.
1280 BC: Archer built in Bombay.
1200 BC: Discovered Fishing, started to research Pottery.
1040 BC: Poprushed settler in Delhi, began to build new archer.
975 BC: Founded Madras. Began to build Monument there. Brennus converts to Judaism.
925 BC: Started to build worker in Delhi and in Bombay.
Notes: Hinduism spread to Bombay. The discovery of Fishing means that with two seaside cities, I can run science at 70 % with a surplus. The elephant camp was destroyed by a barbarian axeman, who then attacked Delhi and was killed. The woodman II promotion warrior is in Delhi; I mean to turn it into an axeman when enough money. Barbarian city Circassian NE of Delhi might be worth capturing and keeping. But a priority is of course to build a city near the horses in the south. It's possible to do so without having any overlapping tiles with Bombay. Hinduism in Bombay - will probably spread to Bismarck, who might be a useful ally against Brennnus at need.

 

[FeedBack]

My shot... Well, my evil plan didn't work out...

Spoiler :

In case you guys are wondering what the "evil plan" was, here it is:

Spoiler :

After seeing so much input in aelf's Immortal Challenge 2, I decided to try a Oracle slingshot to Metal Casting, hiring an engineer and using the GE generated to grab the Pyramids. Bombay wasn't helping. I had only 7 turns to build the forge, and it only could be built in Delhi... If I build the Oracle in Delhi, Bombay couldn't build the forge in 7 turns...
I thought about building the Pyramids at Delhi stone by stone. But without stone it would take more than 40 turns. No way.
The problem is I just realized it after I started trying.... As you will see below.

This time I took notes while playing. Even not taking screenies....

Ok, let`s start to fix the trash.

Turn 0:
Switch research to Priesthood. I wish to start the Oracle ASAP on city 2...
Switch City 2 to a worker. He'll be useful.
Research order: Priesthood -> AH -> Pottery
Move the warriors and hit ENTER

Turn 1: Lion near our jungle warrior. Fortify him and pray...

IBT: Lion attacks... Warrior wins unscratched!

Turn 2: Spot orange borders to the south. Spot a bear with the northern warrior...

Turn 3: Now it's time to bleed hands... the worker!

Turn 4:
Realize I don't have hunting... I don't have AH... I have only Agri and Mining. Well, send the worker to ROAD the river. Trying to connect my two cities.
I pop a hut! Get a warrior...

Turn 5:
ALARM! ALARM! Barb archer spotted!!!!

Turn 6:
moving...

Turn 7:
moving...

Turn 8:
Priesthood is in. Start AH.
Barb archer parks near warrior. He is fortified on a jungle hill. I will take the chances

IBT:
No good.

Turn 9:
Warrior completes at Size 3 Delhi. Send him to Bombay. Start another.

Turn 12:
Warriors park near archers...

IBT:
Warrior near copper wins!
Warrior en-route to Bombay loses. Frawless victoty to the barb...

Turn 13:
THe northern warrior is back! He gets near the barb archer... If he wins, he gets a name!

IBT:
The warrior is avenged! Woody wins!

Turn 15:
Bombay finished it's worker. It still hasn't got hinduism... This worker is gonna chop a monument.

IBT:
Met Cyrus
Bizmark asks for open borders and receives a free

Turn 16:
Bombay is doomed. The chops outside the fatcross give too few hammers.
Delhi finishes warrior and starts a settler. Due on 13...

IBT:
Stonehenge BIAFAL.

Turn 17:
I think my Oracle plans are toast. Plan B will go after settler is out.

Turn 18:
AH Is in. As I'm going for plan B, start Hunting.
Worker starts the pasture on the cows.

Turn 22:
Judaism has just been founded. Cows have just been pasturized.

Turn 23:
Hunting is in. Start fishing. No, pottery! No, writing! Can't decide now...
Ok, screw Bombay. Pottery it is.

Turn 26:
Speeded with a chop, a settler is out

Turn 30:
Pottery is in. Starting IW. We need to chop the jungle.
Madras is founded. Start a monument.

Turn 32:
Hinduism spread in Madras... Why didn't it spread in bombay yet???

Turn 40:
Here's where I stop. Nothing I wanted is done. Brennus founded the horse site. Bizmark founded a city near the gold, screwing mine. So, we'd have to take them by force. A force we don't have yet, as the borders of Madras still haven't expanded. I really don't think this game can be picked as best...

 

[Roland Johansen]

My attempt is below.

Spoiler :

You shouldn't read this if you haven't played the game yet.



A turnlog is available in the text file.



I went worker-worker-settler(partial)-barracks(partial)-settler(remainder)
-barracks(remainder)-archer-granary-archer-archer-settler(in 4 turns) in Delhi
5 forests were chopped there. No poprushing yet.
The settler can be poprushed now. Delhi is size 5 and working 5 improved tiles. Delhi has a barracks and a granary (for more efficient regrowth after poprushing).

I went worker-monument-barracks-granary (in 15) in Bombay.
2 forests were chopped there.
Bombay is size 2 (3 next turn) and is working 2 improved tiles and will connect iron soon. Bombay has a monument and a barracks and expanded borders.

I founded Madras near the gold and it finished a monument and is building a granary. It expands its borders to contain more gold and a cow resource in 8 turns.
Madras will be my commercial city for some time. It is close to a German city, but has plenty of good tiles for the early game and will end up being a good city. It's gold mines will help the economy greatly.

Iron will be connected in 6 turns. I have 3 warriors, 3 archers, 3 workers.

Barbarians were roaming around but I didn't fight too much with them. I avoided them where I could and the AI founded cities in such spots that they didn't appear a lot after some time. I defeated 1 archer and 3 warriors if I recall correctly. Also a wolf and a lion were killed.
1 fogbuster on a hill north of our capital also prevents some barbarians.

I explored a bit more, but there is still some exploring which needs to be done. But I couldn't spare the units to do that and there is enough terrain visible to settle some cities.

The relations with Cyrus are pleased (+3) momentarily because I switched to his religion temporarily. It's a nice feature of the spiritual trait that you can switch back and forth without problems. I have open borders with Cyrus.

I researched: Hunting-Animal Husbandry-Archery-Pottery-Iron Working.
Just started with Writing. I plan to open borders with Bismarck for the beneficial foreign trade routes.

Some extra units are needed. The barbarians don't appear a lot anymore, but the gold city is very lighly defended. The German city north-west of that city is often under barbarian attack. If it falls, then my city needs better defence, but we have a free nice barbarian city for the taking.

I hate the colour of the Celtic borders. They're barely visible.

The copper site west of our capital is taken. It might be possible to steal the copper by settling close to it, but I'm not going to try as I'll connect iron soon. I'm not really satisfied with the city planning that I did north of that city.

A city near the horse can be settled soon with the settler that is being build in the capital.

2 cottages have been worked long enough to increase in size.

A beginning road network is in place. All the cities are connected by road or river and the cities are connected to the German road network.

Edited: corrected in red 4 tiny mistakes/additions

Trashy gandhi BC-0875-Roland Johansen.CivWarlordsSave
txt.gif Turnlog Trashgame-Roland Johansen- 2400BC-875BC.txt

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Roland, you map looks very weird on my computer. Is that something you have done on purpose?

 

[Roland Johansen]

Roland, you map looks very weird on my computer. Is that something you have done on purpose?

I have drawn some city fat crosses on the map. Is that what you mean with weird? Sometimes when I'm planning cities, I draw fat crosses on the map. It makes it easier for me to fill an area with 'nice' cities.

Or do you mean something else?

Sometimes I also place signs on the map where I want to do certain terrain improvements, but I removed those before saving the 875BC savegame.

If you want to get rid of all the lines because they distract you, then you can zoom out until you see the clouds and then go into the strategic layer. It is the left most button above the minimap. It has an option 'delete all lines'. With the 'delete' option, you can delete specific things like lines or signs. It's just a few clicks to delete it all.

Cabert said that everyone may see how you play the game in your savegame and thus you don't have to delete signs and lines as long as they don't offer detailed plans on how to play the game in the next turns. He didn't complain about my lines on the map the last time and placed city signs on the map himself, so I guess it's ok.

 

[mice]

My effort,

Spoiler :

Builds in both cities, Fast workers. Tech, hunting to AH.

In Delhi once the worker appears, farm on FP, hut the 'phants, pasture the cows, mine.


Chopping forests in Bombay for a settler, settler also building in Delhi.

Ethical dilemma as I know there is copper, but usually wouldnt move my warrior off it's jungle hill to go find it. Usually I'd stay put to fogbust the archers and axes that will come soon.

I compromise by sending the warrior in the direction of the copper, but switching tech from Pottery to Archery, which is what I'd do if I didnt know about the copper. I'll probably be thankful for the archers anyway.


After Archery, Pottery

Founded Madras near the copper.

Barbs attack Delhi and the defending archer holds on by a thread.

Settler from Bombay heads up to the gold area along with his worker.

Monument chopped in copper city

Bangalore founded near the gold.

 

[cabert]

And mine :

Spoiler :

2400BC : switched Dehli to barracks. This gives me the worker in 4 turns .
2280 BC : first real barb! time to get some defense!
2240BC: 23 gold from a hut, back to 100% research. Whip the worker.
2200BC : overflow into a settler
2120BC:bombay connected to delhi = trade route = more commerce = I see a barb archer. My healing (after killing animals) warrior flees... and discovers copper
1960BC : cyrus finds my healing warrior. ivory is connected. My warriors flee from barb archers. Whipping another warrior in bombay for fogbusting.
1880: AH in, start pasturing the cows. Dehli switches back to a barracks, one turn away from a warrior.
1800BC: my warrior couldn't avoid a fight, but he won it . One less barb archer.
1760BCasture done. Now for the mines.
1680BC:stonehenge converts to money. start a monument.
1640BC: pottery in. Start writing.
1560BC whip the settler, put the warrior back in front of the queue.
1520BC : warrior moves in front of the incoming settler towards copper site
1480BC:bombay is hinduist. I whip the monument there. settler out of delhi catches up on teh warrior. Delhi starts a granary with 14 hammers overflow.
1400BC: madras is founded SE of the copper. it starts a monument.
1320BC : madras is connected to delhi. writing in. start alphabet.
1240BC another copper spotted near brennus. something to keep checked. Archer nearing delhi. switch delhi to warrior and moving warriors for defense.
1160BC:double barb killing = double lucky. granary fisnished in delhi. back to barracks.
1080BC: one more lucky barb killing (lucky is a bit wrong : in a forest, on the other side of a river = good odds) whip a granary in bombay.
875BC:my first axeman can only revenge the pillaging of our ivory.

What's better : we have defensive troops.
What's not good enough :
- 1 worker for 3 cities clearly isn't enough.
- no GPP coming in yet. That's no good for a philo leader
- low commerce

What I was planning to do : build 3/4 promoted axemen and take down the barb city next door. build 2/3 more workers. cottage around the capital. Build libraries for scientists. Find more good sites.

 

[KMadCandy]

checking in, was offline for so long i didn't even see the april fool's joke until the 3rd!!

i have serious allergy issues atm, but i saw the doctor yesterday so he gave me things to help with that. the short-term med i most need at this point, well, it definitely muddles my thinking so i haven't even opened the save yet. and i want to run a test game (i won't worry about map setup, so it won't take much effort) just to see how long this round's time period "feels". i've been good tho and have not opened the spoilers either

i didn't add up who's already played and who has not. if we reach the point where everyone else has played early, i'm in the cabert school of "don't let me hold you up." i don't have a feel atm for when i'll be up to playing a "real game" braincell-wise, and i do want to give this one my best.

if i can tell by thursday mid-day (i'm on US time btw) that it's quite unlikely to happen by friday midnight, then i'll post an official "skip me s'il vous plait". at that point i'd read the spoilers and look at the saves, and post some thoughts about them if i trust my brain *giggle*. i'd vote or not vote depending on which way we decided to go there, we discussed both yes and no regarding that one.

so, please consider this a "we may skip me if we want to, i'll not feel bad. i will post ASAP in the event that i can tell i will definitely need a skip". does that make sense?

ps this allergy flare-up is termporary, so don't worry about me. i of course can't promise that my brain will meet standard definitions of "normal" when it's over, it never has before after all! is "s'il vous plait" correct? and would someone who's played a trash game before post a list of the time periods they usually run, so that my test game i can get a feel for each one? don't bother if it takes quite some effort, but if it's easy enough for a vet to do i'd appreciate it

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I have drawn some city fat crosses on the map. Is that what you mean with weird? Sometimes when I'm planning cities, I draw fat crosses on the map. It makes it easier for me to fill an area with 'nice' cities.

Or do you mean something else?

Sometimes I also place signs on the map where I want to do certain terrain improvements, but I removed those before saving the 875BC savegame.

If you want to get rid of all the lines because they distract you, then you can zoom out until you see the clouds and then go into the strategic layer. It is the left most button above the minimap. It has an option 'delete all lines'. With the 'delete' option, you can delete specific things like lines or signs. It's just a few clicks to delete it all.

OK, that's all right then.