Fix the 5th trash game

I hope you'll get better soon KMadCandy, serious allergy issues doesn't sound good at all, even if it's 'only' a temporary flare-up. When you can send a file, then please do as this is a tough round and we need all the saves that we can get. But if you feel sick, then you should just rest and get better.

BTW: I think ' s'il vous plait ' is correct, at least what I remember from high school. To be completely correct a ^ needs to be added above the letter ' i ' in plait. But that a bit hard to do with a normal keyboard.
 
Cap'n, can you please post the "roster"?
I'm off to beach tomorrow evening for Easter and won't be able to look at anything until Monday night. I think my vote will be "skipped" this turn...
 
Cap'n, can you please post the "roster"?
I'm off to beach tomorrow evening for Easter and won't be able to look at anything until Monday night. I think my vote will be "skipped" this turn...
Roster:
Cabert Played
Cam_H Not yet played, could be a bit late
Fbelintani Played
KMadCandy Not yet played, could be a bit late
Mice Played
Öjevind Lång Played
Pigswill Played
Roland Johansen Played
Shyuhe Played

That's what you wanted to know?
Seeing my own save, one other and the various comments, I'd like to have all saves before voting. It would be great if Cam or Kmad fixed this game a little better than I did.
 
OK ... back with the Civ computer now, and should get something in before the official deadline. :)
 
well, judging by how i did on my test game, i'd put the chance of mine being the best game once i play it at about, ummm, 0.00001%. but i'll try it, and use drugs as my excuse *giggle*. it'll be fun and that's my goal far more than being voted best after all ;)

and i meant "serious allergy issues" as in driving me up the wall and i want to be rid of them! not a medical definition of serious/critical, oopsies.
 
OMG! does not need to be spoilered, even for Cam_H:

in the 1000 BCs, the barbs have pillagefest at Delhi. i was able to defend our capital with no troop losses but i felt bad and it was not fun, it was 'yikes! stress! eep! what do i do???'.

2007 AD, i decide that reading spoilers and looking at saves would be fun and not stressful. i'm pretty sure this is okay, since the goal of the SG is not to make us suffer. *insert coughing/wheezing/sneezing fit, admittedly exaggerated for sympathy, here*

IOW, this is an "i wimped out" pass. but the wimped out part is due to health/medication/blechs, and it won't happen again. note from my doctor available on request. this stage shall pass soon yay!
 
this round is turning out really tough, judging from the saves. There appears to be a pretty big randomness factor in all of the saves too :blush: I hope the last two saves get some RNG luck in their favor!
 
No spoiler tags for me! :)

KMad - sorry to hear of your suffering. I must have sympathy pain, as I've had a cold for the last couple of days too!

Pre-Turn:

Swapped Delhi to a Warrior and placed citizens on high-:food: tiles for growth. Bombay switched to a Fast Worker with the view to chopping out a Settler. Persisted with Hunting with a view to Archery and Animal Husbandry (discount).

2400BC – 2000BC

Copper is stumbled upon while south-west Warrior tries to avoid the prowling and growling Lions. Barbarian Archers are spotted to the west also in 2160AD. A goodie hut in the western jungle yields a free Warrior. We meet a Persian Scout in the south west near Celtia. Delhi’s Warrior is built and we whip out a Fast Worker. Hunting is researched in 2120BC and Archery is pursued.

2000BC – 1800BC

In 1920BC we find a second Copper tile further south of the first uncovered one. There’s a three-way resource split worth considering, although it’s getting mighty close to Brennus’ borders. Archery comes in, which allows us to move our Settlers around with a modicum of confidence. I envisage that whipping will be a large part of the BC years, so opt for Pottery with a view to Granaries and later getting some Cottages up around our river-connected tiles. Regrettably Bismark settles near our double-Gold spot, and in doing so also knocks out a range of other desirable settling tiles. Bombay gets its Fast Worker who bravely heads into the forests without an escort and starts chopping out a Settler.

1800BC – 1200BC

Stonehenge is constructed elsewhere, and Judaism is FiaDL. An un promoted Warrior wins a battle against a Barbarian Warrior. Delhi whips out an Archer with a big overflow to producing a Settler. Pottery is in and Animal Husbandry is pursued for developing the Cow tile next to Delhi, but also with the hope of picking up Horses nearby seeing that Copper is still not on stream. Delhi’s Archer gets taken out on the way to our planned settling spot near the west coast by a barbarian Archer, but our Warrior cleans up the mess. Delhi gets a Granary. Madras is founded between Cows and Copper, but requires a border pop so a Monument is dialled up. Agree to Open Borders with Persia.

1200BC – 875BC

Bombay builds its Settler with plans of founding a spot up river closer to Delhi. Animal Husbandry comes in and we chase Writing. Confucianism is founded and adopted by Bismark, who we spot with a Settler party east of Delhi. 1080BC sees Cologne founded on a sup-optimal tile very close to Delhi, and it will probably be under severe Indian cultural pressure. Our Settler is redirected towards a Horse resource near the south eastern coast, and eventually settles Bangalore that splits Horses-Pigs-Rice. The area was cleared of Barbs for us courtesy of a German Archer - so Bismark is of some use to us afterall! A Barbarian Axe approaches Delhi, so an Archer is whipped and defeats the invader with no pillaging whatsoever. In two minds, but end up agreeing to Open Borders with Bismark. Writing is due next turn.

Admittedly we're not strong technologically or militarily, but there’s some reasonably good building blocks I think in terms of a couple of good new cities, and there’s another Settler build in Delhi. Cologne will probably flip before too long (20% German).

p66605_2400BC_Cult.jpg


p66605_2400BC_Tech.jpg


[Edit] Wow - just started looking at the spoilers and compared my game to Pigswill's - some similarities! [/Edit]
 

Attachments

Cam_H: Fools seldom differ. (At least you didn't have Brennus competing for the copper).
 
so with all the saves in except Kmad (who won't play), the round is officially over.
Kmad will be our returning officer for best game.
3 votes for th ebest game, 2 for second best,1 for 3rd best.
I expect the voting to be over on sunday morning european time.
If it's too short, we can push this further to monday evening to let everyone enjoy easter peacefully.
happy voting.
 
I hope it isn't outrageously bad form to write about the positive aspects of one's own contributions, but since the game is being played for the sake of discussion, I want to enter a plea:

1. I still think I was right to build my first city where I did because it is extremely important to have an outlet to the sea; and the neighbouring German city to the north is Bismarck's capital, so time was of the essence. Normally, I would certainly have built a worker first. I didn't found Bombay in the west because I hadn't investigated the terrain there all the way to the coast. If I had, I would have missed two goody huts further north.
2. I then proceeded to found another city (Madras) by the copper, and by the sea, and since I have researched fishing, I have a quite healthy research rate at 70 % *with* an increase of one gold coin per turn.
3. There has been a fair bit of amusement at my letting a warrior with a Woodsman II status investigate the arctic north, but when a hut I popped on the tundra offered me two promotions, I decided that the Woodsman promotions would be useful once the unit returned south. I kept a wary eye open for bears, barbarians and so on when moving the unit around and back south, where it popped another goody hut north of the copper site. I would not send it out again until it has been upgraded to an axeman, for obvious reasons.
4. I am currently researching Monotheism, again for obvious reasons. I am sure others would prefer to research Priesthood first to get the famous sling, but I am doubtful that we'll be able to build the Oracle first. Of course, we should build religious improvements in Delhi to get a Great Prophet who can build the Hindu shrine. Anyway, after Priesthood the obvious research path would be Iron Working and then Metal Casting. After that, build the Colossus in Bombay and later on the GL in Madras. Keep the capital busy building a couple of settlers and similar things, and the Oracle if you think it worhwhile.
5. The barb city northeast of Delhi is perfectly situated from our POV. Get a few axemen and/or swordsmen and capture it! Before that, keep one guard there to ensure that Bismarck doesn't beat us to it. Founding the city of gold beyond the barb city can actually be done while the barb city still remains barbarian; and the barb city might even flip to us. (Of course, the first new city to build is the one by the horses in the SE.)
6. With Hinduism in Bombay, it is quite possible that Bismarck may become a Hindu, and useful against Brennus, who *will* become an enemy whatever we do. Appeasing Brennus by switching to "his" religion (Cyrus', actually)won't work. Not with Brennus. Even if Bismarck only stays Hindu for a limited time, that kind of thing tends to have a positive effect on a civ's attitude to you even after the separation of ways. Unless we are talking about Isabella or Saladin, of course.
7. Final note: Brennus is having problems with a Barbarian axeman, who currently seems to be tearing up his iron mine. Good!
 
Ojevind,
you don't need to defend your game, nor to be offended.
But if you want to improve your game you need to see a few things :
- working unimproved tiles is poor
- distance maintenance in the early game needs a payback to be worth the expense. A foodless city isn't worth the expense. Never.
- when all you have is a city and a settler, you need to leverage that settler in the best possible way. Blocking an opponent isn't leveraging anything.
= Bombay isn't a good city site. You really should see it.
Now Bombay is the lucky owner of iron. But you certainly didn't know it :mischief:
 
First some comments right?

My own game: I usually don't go for the fastest second or third settler because I know that when the fouth, fifth and sixth city are being build, then the maintenance costs will start to increase to such levels that you need some development in your cities. You don't want a stalled economy which stops you from any further expansion. And cottages don't instantly produce good commerce levels, that takes time. You have to start building them as early as possible. That's why in my game, there are only 3 cities and not 4 but the 3 cities are being developed by 3 workers to improve my national economy.

That's why I chose to develop Bombay and why I chose to build 2 hamlets. I chose to research Iron working to further develop jungle cities like Bombay and the jungle city that is going to be build near the horses. Without Iron working and jungle chopping such cities won't develop well. And I thought that the gold city was a priority to help create and sustain a good economy.
I'm researching at a net rate of 23 (29 with 6 upkeep costs). I chose to build 2 barracks to defend our cities better, a granary in the capital to help regrowth after pop rushing and 2 monuments for border expansion.
The copper site is claimed by Brennus, but I could still steal it by building a city next to it. It is not really needed as I have iron and the horse site looks like a priority.
The main weak point in my game (according to me) would be the level of defence. A few extra archers or axemen could be useful. Madras, the gold city looks more threatened than it really is because the barbarians are stopped by the German city to the north (Munich) and Berlin. But something bad could theoretically stil happen. Sometimes you need to gamble a bit, but an archer or axeman should be moved there sooner rather than later.

Pigswil: You seem to have a different expansion philosophy than I have. You've quickly grabbed 4 settler spots, but only have 1 worker to improve them. You chose to leave Bombay as dead weight without developing it (it built one of the settlers). It does seem like you're switching into development mode now as you're building 2 workers. It will take some time to better develop some of those cities.
You haven't developed pottery and thus can't build cottages, you also can't chop jungles so it will be hard to revive your economy which is researching at a net rate of 6. Your cities seem defended rather well. You haven't constructed buildings in your cities, because you went for fast expansion. You've explored well and have copper and horses.
So a good expansion but the economy is stalled.

Öjevind Lång: We have a difference in opinion about terrain improvements. I value them extremely highly and you value other things more. At least, in this savegame and the previous one, you chose not to build many workers or terrain improvements. You do seem to want to develop your terrain now as you're building 2 workers at the moment.
The monument in Bombay and the one being build in Madras are good ways to expand the borders. You've explored well and have a very large experienced defence force in Delhi (partly due to the barracks I guess) and have copper. The other 2 cities are defended well too. Your net research rate is at 10, which is about the average of the various savegames. Building a few cottages would improve it. You haven't researched iron working and thus can't improve Bombay well.

fbelintani: Your approach seems a bit more similar to mine in the sense that you like to develop your cities while expanding. Your capital has a barracks and granary and Bombay a monument and your capital has a cottage. Only, I don't see why Madras isn't building a monument to get the copper in the fat cross.
The major weakness would be the lack of decent defenders. If an axeman appears around one of your cities, then you're in major trouble. The warriors can't do a lot against those monsters. An archer is also not really fun.
I also think that the area to the north of your capital could use some exploring units. It might be easier to plan cities there then.
The horse spot is taken which is a bit of bad news but you do have copper.
Why didn't you use one of the workers to improve Bombay?
You are researching Iron working which will help improve Bombay further (with jungle chopping).
You're researching at a net rate of 13, which is quite good since you didn't settle the gold site.

shyuhe: Ah someone that went for Iron working quickly like me. It is a valuable technology because of all of the jungles. At least it is in my opinion. Especially since Bombay is already in the jungle and a city close to the horses will be. A pity that in your game the horses site is already taken. But we do have the luck that iron is near Bombay.
You didn't research pottery which I think is a crucial technology for sustained expansion because of the cottages. You could use a bit of exploration and a fog buster in the north, but you seem to have been hit by barbarians a lot limiting your options.
Your defences are more than adequate, only I don't see why you chose to build a spearman.
You do seem to like pop-rushing a lot. It is a powerful element of the game. However, it really shines when you add a granary to the city that does the pop-rushing.
You've also build 3 workers like me, we both seem to like fast improvements. The worker in Bombay seems a rather recent addition as the city doesn't have a lot of improvements yet. But at least the city now can become better with a worker that can chop jungles.
You're researching at a net rate of 10, which is ok.

Mice: You went for fast expansion and thus you have 4 cities where one has copper and the other gold. That's very good. Of course if you build more settlers, then you build less of something else. In your case Bombay has suffered a bit as it is still rather undeveloped and you have only 2 workers for 4 cities. You're working on that a bit as you're building another worker, but also another settler and 3 workers for 5 cities is also not that great. It seems like you're planning to build a city near the horses, however you don't have the technology to chop jungles so it might be hard to develop it.
You didn't build any cottages while you do have the technology. They are important to sustain the expansion rate (in my opinion). The gold mine will of course help.
I don't like the position of Madras. Yes, it does have cow and copper in its fat cross and on itself is a good city. But it is very hard to place decent cities in the area north of Delhi and Madras. They will either have a large overlap with Madras and Delhi or a significant amount of tiles will remain unused. And I don't like to leave tiles unused. It's a rather personal opinion of course. Maybe this position is also chosen because you haven't explored the region north of Madras.
You're researching at a net rate of 10 and it will go up after building the gold mine, so that's good.
Your defences are extremely light. Especially Madras looks vulnerable as without cities to the north or south, barbarians (axemen, archers) could easily slaughter the single warrior defending the city.
This is one of the better savegames in my opinion and that's why you get some more nitpicking.;)

Cabert: I like workers and terrain improvements and I would have liked to see more of them. You have developed Bombay a bit with buildings, however it could use a worker to improve the terrain: cottages, mines, irrigation, chopping. You are also one of the few who has build a granary in Delhi, improving the pop-rushing power of the city.
Like many, you have copper and you have already connected it. However, your defences are very light at the moment. Especially Madras would be in big trouble if an axeman appeared from the north.
Why exactly have you fortified a warrior east of Delhi?
You're researching at a net rate of 10 which is ok. With the massive jungles that we're experiencing, I would have preferred iron working over alphabet. Especially if you want to settle the horse site.

Cam_H: Bangalore is undefended, wow. The risk is probably limited because there might not be a lot of fog of war to the south-west. It depends on the positioning of the cities from Brennus and the shape of the island. It is largely unknown how much fog of war there is in the south. The mountains do make it safer.
You are among the few who have expanded quickly to get four cities which is positive. Of course if you build more settlers, then you build less of something else. Bombay is rather undeveloped and the defences are pretty light. Madras is also vulnerable to attacks out of the fog of war.
You've only build 2 workers for 4 cities and are already planning a fifth city. I do value terrain improvements rather highly, so I would have liked to see more workers.
Cologne might culture flip, but even a single culture producing improvement (or its state religion) will stop any chance of a culture flip in the near future once the borders expand once. OF course, if Bismarck doesn't build such a building, then you might succeed in a culture flip.
You did build a granary in Delhi to improve its poprushing power, which is very nice.
I don't like the position of Madras. Yes, it does have cow and copper in its fat cross and on itself is a good city. But it is very hard to place decent cities in the area north of Delhi and Madras. They will either have a large overlap with Madras and Delhi or a significant amount of tiles will remain unused. And I don't like to leave tiles unused. It's a rather personal opinion of course. Maybe this position is also chosen because you haven't explored the region north of Madras.
You're researching at a net rate of 12, which is above average. However, I do think you need cottages if you want to keep expanding. And you do need iron working to improve the terrain around the two jungle cities.
You have bad relations with the AI's.
Again, this is one of the better savegames in my opinion and that's why you get some more nitpicking.;)
 
Roland: thanks for the observations on my game and the points you've raised are indeed valid. I'm hoping (probably expecting) that the barbs will capture Bombay which will cut down maintenance nicely. I do tend to grab territory first then develop it second. As you can see from my save and commentary the nice spots got taken early which is something I try to avoid by getting there first. The economy does suffer in the beginning but if I've got axes I'm fairly safe and I can then head for alphabet to catch up on techs through the initial round of trades.
 
Öjevind Lång;5293041 said:
I hope it isn't outrageously bad form to write about the positive aspects of one's own contributions, but since the game is being played for the sake of discussion, I want to enter a plea:

Of course, you may defend your game. It can lead to some healthy discussion about game strategy. And of course, we will not all agree on that. As long as the discussion won't get emotional, because I don't like to see angry posts here. Let it be a strategy discussion and nothing more.

Öjevind Lång;5293041 said:
1. I still think I was right to build my first city where I did because it is extremely important to have an outlet to the sea; and the neighbouring German city to the north is Bismarck's capital, so time was of the essence. Normally, I would certainly have built a worker first. I didn't found Bombay in the west because I hadn't investigated the terrain there all the way to the coast. If I had, I would have missed two goody huts further north.

Ah, I had understood that you wanted to block the German expansion (you said something like that in your post). That would have been rather impossible on such a large continent. However, you wanted to get a coastal position and thought that was the only position available.

I don't actually understand why you think a coastal position is that important. If you have an empire completely cut of from the seas, then coastal wonders aren't that important. Wonders in general aren't that crucial in this game. They're very nice, but not game shattering.

I personally think the gamble is a bit too big. You sacrifice productivity in your capital of a factor 2 (with improvements it is about twice as productive) to get a city that won't develop quickly just to get a coastal position.

2. I then proceeded to found another city (Madras) by the copper, and by the sea, and since I have researched fishing, I have a quite healthy research rate at 70 % *with* an increase of one gold coin per turn.

I would like to remark to everyone that a research rate of 70% tells almost nothing about the research speed of a civilization. It is extremely important to realize this. There are lots of players that look at the research rate to determine if they're researching quickly and that is just wrong.

Open the financial advisor (F2) and take a look at the amount of research points that you're investing each turn. That and only that determines the research rate.

If you have 5 cities each contributing 10 commerce points and a total upkeep cost of 20, then you can research at 60% with 0 surplus. You're contributing 30 research points per turn on research.
If you have 2 cities each contributing 10 commerce points and a total upkeep cost of 4, then you can research at 80% with 0 surplus. You're contributing 16 research point per turn on research.

This is a very typical example where you can clearly see that the research rate of someone researching at 60% is almost double of someone researching at 80%.

3. There has been a fair bit of amusement at my letting a warrior with a Woodsman II status investigate the arctic north, but when a hut I popped on the tundra offered me two promotions, I decided that the Woodsman promotions would be useful once the unit returned south. I kept a wary eye open for bears, barbarians and so on when moving the unit around and back south, where it popped another goody hut north of the copper site. I would not send it out again until it has been upgraded to an axeman, for obvious reasons.

Hmm, amusement at someones decision is not nice. However, it is a bit comical to see a unit that far north with woodsman promotions. I have used the promotions very well in my game. They allowed the warrior to quickly return south to the gold site that I wished to settle.
Personally, I would have waited a few turns until I reached the forests to give the warrior these promotions. It's always an advantage to keep the promotions available except when you expect to be attacked in between turns.
I didn't promote a few of my archers yet in my present 875BC savegame just to add this little bit of flexibility to them.

4. I am currently researching Monotheism, again for obvious reasons. I am sure others would prefer to research Priesthood first to get the famous sling, but I am doubtful that we'll be able to build the Oracle first. Of course, we should build religious improvements in Delhi to get a Great Prophet who can build the Hindu shrine. Anyway, after Priesthood the obvious research path would be Iron Working and then Metal Casting. After that, build the Colossus in Bombay and later on the GL in Madras. Keep the capital busy building a couple of settlers and similar things, and the Oracle if you think it worhwhile.

I'm also thinking about researching monotheism next to be able to spread our religion and get a 25% hammer bonus when building buildings. Organized religion is one of the best civics in my opinion. I also don't think we have a shot at the Oracle. We don't have marble either so we would have to build it without bonusses.

Personally, I think iron working is very important in this game because Bombay is largely surrounded by jungles and other cities might also be build in the jungle. That's why I chose to research it early. But I seem to have been one of the few to make that choise.

I don't think we should be going for early world wonders a lot in this game. The other nations are ahead of us in research. You can easily see that by observing the GNP-graph in the Info-screen (F9). I don't think we have a shot at many of the early world wonders. Also, each world wonder that you build would mean less expansion.


5. The barb city northeast of Delhi is perfectly situated from our POV. Get a few axemen and/or swordsmen and capture it! Before that, keep one guard there to ensure that Bismarck doesn't beat us to it. Founding the city of gold beyond the barb city can actually be done while the barb city still remains barbarian; and the barb city might even flip to us. (Of course, the first new city to build is the one by the horses in the SE.)

Yep, it could be captured. It won't flip though. It is outside of your cultural borders. You need to have 50% or more influence in the center tile of another city and you have no influence in that center tile. But it surely can be captured.

6. With Hinduism in Bombay, it is quite possible that Bismarck may become a Hindu, and useful against Brennus, who *will* become an enemy whatever we do. Appeasing Brennus by switching to "his" religion (Cyrus', actually)won't work. Not with Brennus. Even if Bismarck only stays Hindu for a limited time, that kind of thing tends to have a positive effect on a civ's attitude to you even after the separation of ways. Unless we are talking about Isabella or Saladin, of course.

Yes, it's nice that Bismarck might become a Hindu. I'm hoping for that too in my savegame. The best way to do this is by getting open borders and foreign trade routes with Bismarck. Religions spread a lot faster using trade routes.

7. Final note: Brennus is having problems with a Barbarian axeman, who currently seems to be tearing up his iron mine. Good!

Ah, you're enjoying the suffering of another civilization. Ooh, you're cruel... :D :D
 
Roland: thanks for the observations on my game and the points you've raised are indeed valid. I'm hoping (probably expecting) that the barbs will capture Bombay which will cut down maintenance nicely. I do tend to grab territory first then develop it second. As you can see from my save and commentary the nice spots got taken early which is something I try to avoid by getting there first. The economy does suffer in the beginning but if I've got axes I'm fairly safe and I can then head for alphabet to catch up on techs through the initial round of trades.


Yes, early alphabet can work nicely to catch up. However, you might have overexpanded a bit as alphabet is expensive to research for you now. Of course, you would have played differently if you had started from 4000BC onward and you might have had better cities.

I went in another direction. I have the most healthy economy from the various savegames and can expand for a while before getting in economical problems. However, I don't have 4 cities yet. It's a different choise. I would normally also have more than 3 cities in 875BC but I also play differently in the period 4000BC-2400BC.
 
Here are my general comments:

A good number of you seem to not like improving tiles. Early improvements on tiles can give huge benefits and it's something to consider. Also, the city defenses are a little scant in some of the saves - having access only to warriors/archers can be bad if you get unlucky on barbs (like me). I think hooking up some sort of strategic resource is critical in the early game.

Now for the specifics...

Cam: 4 cities is nice and you can just road up to the river to connect horses to Delhi. I think you should have mined the hills near Delhi for increased production though. Nobody has alphabet in your save yet, which is a plus. Unfortunately, Bismarck has built the oracle = high defense city that we won't be able to sack, and we'll be caught between two conflicting religions.

Cabert: Bismarck is a religious buddy, which is nice. Halfway to alphabet is also nice as it gives the opportunity to backfill techs. However, you are lacking in workers!

mice: Nice job grabbing the gold site with your 4th city. Delhi is huge :eek: Definitely some potential there. However no access to strategic resources is a little risky. Bombay is a junk city in your save - maybe pop rush a monument there? I just noticed that Bangalore isn't in a very good location - it is food poor. You have a floodplain and a cow, which doesn't leave a lot of excess food to work those gold mines that you've grabbed. Nobody has alphabet in your game either.

Roland: Like mice's save, the access to gold is nice but it also lacks food. However, Judaism has spread to our cities which is a huge bonus diplomatically. IW is complete, which is nice for all that jungle but no strategic resources hooked up yet. Maybe grab the horse/rice city? Delhi has developed quite nicely.

pigswill: Cyrus has alphabet :( Access to the horse city is nice but research is grinding to a halt from city maintenance. Brennus is also very close to us, which I don't like. We should be able to get copper online soon though - leaving the opportunity to grab those barb cities. You also lack workers (and missing out on a 2/2/2 tile!)

Ojevind: Underdeveloped Delhi isn't to my taste. Monotheism is also not very useful at this point as there isn't that much infrastructure to build (OR bonus) and Judaism has already been founded. Only 1 worker for 3 cities is a little light on workers, considering the number of unimproved tiles that remain. You also had the bad luck of having Cyrus discover alphabet :D

To add on to cabert's comments (I hope you're not offended) regarding your coastal city argument - I don't really agree with the need for a coastal city. You'll eventually run into the coast once you start warring or from later expansions - it's not a very high priority (unless you see lots of seafood). Also, blocking only works if you can carve out a backyard that you can fill at your own leisure. Dividing the continent in half can lead to... some serious diplomatic issues later.

fbelintani: You also don't have access to a strategic resource yet, and Madras has wayyyyy too much jungle in its fat cross. It'll be unhealthy at size 2! I think the short term penalty outweighs the long-term potential of having rice in the cross. You also had the misfortune of Cyrus discovering alphabet. Delhi has developed nicely but I think your other cities are suffering from the lack of workers.

me: I got the misfortune of having Brennus settle the horse city and Cyrus discovering alphabet too. I also had some serious barb issues in my game... I hate the RNG. As for why I have a spear - I was building a warrior in defense when I finished connecting copper so it just swapped over - he'll probably head south for duty against those Celtic horsies. My research is stagnating also, but I was planning on running library specialists soon. I have whipped Delhi pretty hard as I only see 5 good tiles for the city to work so I didn't feel a need to grow it any larger. Libyan can be captured soon which will open up some FPs but I imagine you guys don't like my save because I skipped pottery for cottages :lol:
 
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