For or Against “Pro Illegal Immigrant”

[Kingshaggy]

Exactly what rights do ILLEGAL ALIENS have in the United States?

My question is how do other nations deal with this issue

 

[Souron]

They can't be abused or anything like that; the basic Bill of rights still applies.

However, generally, when all legal proceedings are settled, they will be forced to go back to their own contry.

This makes them great criminal targets becouse they are unwilling to go to the police.

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

they have the right to remain silent, anything they do or say may be used against them in a court of law.

they have a right to an attorney, if they cannot afford an attorney one will be appointed to them by the court....

all joking aside....i dont feel they are entitled to a drivers license, welfare of anything kind, any help from the government except to be transported back to their country of origin. treat them humanely but send them back where they came from.

in other words, no social programs and a firm stance that says "you can come here legally but until you do, get out and stay out" and we back that up consistently.

 

[Kingshaggy]

you think we got the guts to Deport 11 million illegal aliens
i say no
it will never happen
i'm against rewarding people that break the law

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

of course not! people want their 99 cent heads of lettuce, gotta have that cheap produce!

doesnt mean we shouldnt though. it should be done.

 

[Xenocrates]

It makes no sense to run an economy to allow the free moveent of capital, information and goods but to prevent the free movement of labour.

Either we believe in free trade or we don't. IMO the system has been set up to encourage exploitation of cheap labour and this is is one of the reasons why the USA is increasingly unpopular.

 

[Elrohir]

They have basic human rights; freedom of religion, speech, etc. I don't believe they have any claim whatsoever, though, to getting drivers licenses, welfare checks, etc. I don't feel it is fair to the American taxpayers to give out our money to criminals, (And by entering the US illegally, you become a criminal, if not necessarily a violent one) when we have enough trouble tending to our own citizens. They are not US citizens, they do not get the priviliges that come with being a citizen of the USA, that seems perfectly fair to me.

 

[GinandTonic]

They have the right to work and thus produse surpless labor for employers and therefore eventually the state.

They have the right to have right wing tabloid newspapers create hysterical headlines about them on slow news days.

A gang master was convicted on 21 counts of manslaughter yesterday for sending his crew out to collect cockles as the tide was comming in.

 

[JollyRoger]

I don't feel it is fair to the American taxpayers to give out our money to criminals, (And by entering the US illegally, you become a criminal, if not necessarily a violent one) .

So were the passengers of the Mayflower criminals?

 

[Leonel]

Well honestly for me if illegal immigrants pay their taxes then I'm fine with that.

 

[WillJ]

I don't think immigration (in and of itself) should ever be illegal.

As for the actual legality of the issue, I'm certainly no expert on it.

 

[cgannon64]

I don't have too many strong feelings on this issue, but I am certain of this: It shouldn't be a crime for a church to help illegal aliens. (Which was recently made a crime, by the way.)

 

[Elrohir]

So were the passengers of the Mayflower criminals?

Yes, technically speaking. I'm pretty sure they broke several English laws by emigrating here in the way that they did.

 

[jamiethearcher]

making illegal immigration a crime IS THE DUMBEST THING THE GOVERNMENT COULD POSSIBLY DO. and I am going to tell you why. no one will likely see this, but I feel it is important to get the facts out.

1) currently, being an illegal immigrant is not a crime. As such, when they are caught, they are not entitled to the same due process a criminal would be. i.e. they dont get the same trial rights, and they are not entiteld to free legal counsel should they not be able to afford it.
2) if you make illegal immigration a crime, you will not be able to deport someone until they have had a full trial, with government paid counsel representing them.
3) this is going to COST A FORTUNE. the lawyers cost money, the trials cost money and the jail time is going to cost money
4) you want to stop illegal immigration? the quickest and easiest way would be to pass laws ensuring illegal immigrants get paid the same amount as legal workers. think about it - if you had to pay an illegal the same as an american, why the heck would you hire an illegal? obviously if this is going to work, it has to be enforced, and people have to be prepared to pay more for produce etc.
5) i am going to be an immigration lawyer in 1.5 years, so this law is going to make me ALOT of money. Thanks Congress
6) actually, i believe it has passed in the house, and is waiting for Senate approval?

 

[Elrohir]

It's been a crime to illegally enter the US for a long time. After all, there's a reason why they're called illegal aliens.

 

[jamiethearcher]

It's been a crime to illegally enter the US for a long time. After all, there's a reason why they're called illegal aliens.

no its not. what happens is if you overstay your visit for over 6 months but under 1 year you are barred from coming back for 3 years. if you overstay for over 1 year you are barred for 10 years. BUT ITS NOT CURRENTLY A CRIME - YOU DO NOT GO TO JAIL, YOU JUST GET DEPORTED. (actually, its called "removed" these days, but it means the same thing.)

 

[Elrohir]

no its not. what happens is if you overstay your visit for over 6 months but under 1 year you are barred from coming back for 3 years. if you overstay for over 1 year you are barred for 10 years. BUT ITS NOT CURRENTLY A CRIME - YOU DO NOT GO TO JAIL, YOU JUST GET DEPORTED. (actually, its called "removed" these days, but it means the same thing.)

I'd keep studying if I were you, you have a ways to go before you become a lawyer.

Crossing the border without authorization is a misdemeanor for the first offense and a felony for subsequent violations. Immigrants who are caught illegally trespassing U.S. territory are fingerprinted and immediately returned, unless they are a repeat offender, in which case they may be criminally prosecuted. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) made the hiring of an illegal alien an offense for the first time. American businesses have hired well over 10 million illegal aliens per year.

The last time I checked, both misdemeanors and felonies were considered types of crime. And people who commit crimes are criminals; therefore those who cross the US border illegally are criminals.

 

[jamiethearcher]

They may or may not be technically crimes, but they are not enforced as such - for the reasons I mentioned above (due process, etc). What is going on right now is that Congress i looking at a law that would make illegally being in the country a felony and enforcing it as such.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/25/immigration.rallies.ap/index.html

I am willing to concede I was wrong and that it is technically a criminal offense, but can you call it a crime in reality if it is NEVER enforced that way?
This law would make it a real crime.

Just think about it - if illegally being in the country is a real crime, why aren't our jails full to the freaking brim with illegal immigrants? becuase they do catch a freaking lot of them.

EDIT: do you have a non-wiki source for that? I like wikipedia and all, but I am not sure I trust it on a legal matter. I may have alot to go before I become a lawyer, but I recall very clearly my immigration professor (a practicing immigration attorney) talking about this law, and what a disaster it would be, and I remember her saying immigration was not a crime ATM.

I am open to the possibility I remembered incorrectly, or, that she was wrong.

 

[Elrohir]

USimmigrationsupport.org has an article, the opening paragraph of which is almost word for word the same as the Wiki's:

Crossing the border without authorization is a misdemeanor for the first offense and a felony for subsequent violations. Mexicans who are caught illegally crossing the border are fingerprinted and immediately returned, unless they are a repeat offender, in which case they may be criminally prosecuted. The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) made the hiring of an illegal alien an offense for the first time. Dispite of that, American companies continue to to hire illegal aliens.

Visalaw.com mentions charging illegal aliens with misdemeanor illegal entry.

According to a Reuters article, the U.S. Office of Border Patrol claims that a new pilot program that jails illegal immigrants who cross into the town of Eagle Pass, Texas, and surrounding area from Mexico, has significantly decreased the numbers of attempters. The program instituted on December 12, is called Operation Streamline II. According to the article, officials believe part of the reason for the decline in undocumented immigrants attempting to cross the border at Eagle Pass is due to rumors of increased border patrol security. In mid-2005, approximately 150 undocumented immigrants were apprehended daily by Border patrol, but since its institution, the numbers have dropped to about 10 per day. Under this new program, 740 undocumented immigrants have been arrested and charged with misdemeanor illegal entry. After they are arrested, they are generally tried in federal court and jailed up to 180 days.

Either you misheard your teacher, this was a very long time ago, or she was sadly mistaken.


Anyway, it cannot be completely enforced because of the sheer number of illegal aliens, you are correct there. But that doesn't mean we should just throw border security out the window and let anyone who wants to come to the US, with no control.

 

[jamiethearcher]

Either you misheard your teacher, this was a very long time ago, or she was sadly mistaken.


Anyway, it cannot be completely enforced because of the sheer number of illegal aliens, you are correct there. But that doesn't mean we should just throw border security out the window and let anyone who wants to come to the US, with no control.

I don't think we should throw border security out the window, I think it is very important. I just think making it an enforced crime is the absolute wrong way to solve the problem. As I mentioned in my earlier post, ensuring illegal immigrants are paid the same wages as Americans are would solve the problem in a heartbeat, and at a significantly lower cost to society.

EDIT: and making it a felony offense for the first time is even worse - there is a significant difference between a felony and misdemeanor conviction.

EDIT AGAIN: and your visalaw article shows that this it is not being enforced as a crime - it has a pilot program of criminal enforcement (meaning that the regular process in other instances is to NOT go after immigrants criminally), that has criminally tried under 1000 people - there are millions of people in the country illegally. If you are enforcing a crime in well under 1% of all the instances, it isn't a crime, plain and simple.