Foreign Policy: CivFr

[2metraninja]

I also think that KISS is the way to go (Richard Marchinko's "Keep It Simple, Stupid")

But we must include that Poly and CP want to be covered by this NAP too somehow.

Poly have NAP to t180. I dont have the chat, but it was more like few lines, than real chat. MZ is on vacation somewhere near Florida. I can even hardly imagine how he takes his eyes away from the beach beauties to look at the netbook screen Anyway, he said something like: "If French dotn want 4-way NAP, let them be, I wont mind joining you against them at t180.". Where Ot4e said: "We want to be included in this NAP. It is important for us. Tell them we must be covered too." (CP have NAP with French to t190)

 

[RegentMan]

Eh with this situation, including four teams in a CFC-CivFr peace arrangement is overly complicated.

Let's just propose a NAP until turn 210 and be done with it. If CivFr wants to attack one of our allies, we can always help them out with gold or gifted units (unless CivFr adds some NAP limitations, but I don't think they would. RB definitely would, CivFr not so much). We've whined in this thread about how peace with CivFr would be amazing. Now that it is within our grasp, we're moving soooo slow and reserved. I say we send off a message like,

"Hi CivFr,

We are also wanting to end this war. Consider it over. How does a NAP until turn 210 sound?

Team CFC"

We have to deal with RB first. Our next competitor can wait. This reminds me of a How I Met Your Mother line. "Eh, this is future Team CFC's problem."

 

[Sommerswerd]

What about telling CivFr simple "We want NAP until 210 starting now." Then, if they say yes we say "OK good, we have a NAP until turn 210, now we want to include CP in the NAP until turn 210, so all 3 of us have NAP until turn 210". Then if they say yes we can come back and say "Fine all 3 of us have NAP until turn 210, now let's include Poly in the NAP as well, so all 4 of us have a NAP until turn 210."

If they say yes to all of that I will eat my hat , but if they say yes then we can all deal with RB however we want in peace, and then decice what if anything to do about CivFr later.

 

[RegentMan]

Alright, it has been five days with no response to CivFr. We have been belly-aching and moaning about a peace with them so we don't have to face a two-front war, and now that CivFr has approached us, we have drug our feet.

2metra has wanted to send a plan to CivFr with our agreement to peace: namely, stay at war in-game, but agree we're not at war out-of-game. This way, we might be able to fool RB into thinking we're still at war with CivFr.

Ot4e suggested that we start demilitarizing the border together - with French and us, but still not signing in-game peace, so we dont give hint to RB that other 40+ units are coming their way. I did that in previous game and it worked perfect, but I am not sure if we can implement it here with the French.

What about:

"We agree that peace between us will be better for both nations. We offer you peace and NAP to turn 210.

If you are interested in giving us some time to make surprising move against RB and we have your written agreement that you will send us peace offer to sign in-game peace at t185, we are OK with mutual demilitarizing of our front, starting with half of each army to be moved away from the border, then another 25% of the army until only 25% of our current armies are left 10 tiles from the border.

Team CFC"

I, and a few others, have voiced our concerns for something complicated with a team that will have trust issues with us and doesn't speak English natively.

Although I think I'd rather just make peace in-game and with a NAP until turn 210. This way RB knows we're not distracted on a second front and has to whip/draft that much harder, hurting their economy even worse in the build-up.

Is the surprise value really that important in our war against RB? A clause like that in the peace deal seems like it would only make them mistrust us and think we're just trying to get them to send units away. Let's just keep it simple for now.

I agree, let's not make this too complicated. A simple NAP is best without any extra clauses.

2metra and bistrita have said they want to include CP and Apolyton on any CFC-CivFr NAP- Sommerswerd might also be on that ship.

I just want to get this darned NAP signed! We have been waiting forever to get one with CivFr so we can focus 100% on RB. Arranging a deal between CFC and CivFr and Apolyton and CP will take fooooooorever- look at what we've done in the five days since receiving this peace offer.

Eh with this situation, including four teams in a CFC-CivFr peace arrangement is overly complicated.

Let's just propose a NAP until turn 210 and be done with it. If CivFr wants to attack one of our allies, we can always help them out with gold or gifted units (unless CivFr adds some NAP limitations, but I don't think they would. RB definitely would, CivFr not so much). We've whined in this thread about how peace with CivFr would be amazing. Now that it is within our grasp, we're moving soooo slow and reserved. I say we send off a message like,

"Hi CivFr,

We are also wanting to end this war. Consider it over. How does a NAP until turn 210 sound?

Team CFC"

Remember our initial reactions?

Yay! A NAP until turn 210 is a-okay with me. Let's not be too picky here...

I would answer with a short and open response
Just to said we are agree this war is useless for both and we are glad to sign a NAP with them.

This is absolutely great. Let's get back to them ASAP agreeing to peace and asking for a thirty turn NAP, how does that sound?

Yes! Let's get this NAP signed!

About time.

It is about time- about time to rid ourselves of a two-front war!

 

[YossarianLives]

Great post RegentMan! That sums up how I feel really well.

I understand the need to bring our allies on board with a CivFr NAP, but it really isn't our responsibility. Let CP and Poly work on that themselves. We just need this damned peace so we can focus on RB. We're just 4 turns from the end of our NAP with them at this point! I really think we should just send Regent's message right away:

"Hi CivFr,

We are also wanting to end this war. Consider it over. How does a NAP until turn 210 sound?

Team CFC"

 

[talonschild]

"A NAP until the end of turn 210"

Send it, for the love of Pete.

 

[Bowsling]

Does it make that big of a difference?

But yeah, the sooner the better for sending it.

 

[talonschild]

It does make it unambiguous.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Who is doing the CivFr diplo? I don't see why Yossa couldn't send it already?

Anyway, a simple NAP is best to start then we can ask to add CP and then Poly. If CivFr refuses, then we can just tell our allies that. CP had no problem telling us when CivFr wouldn't cooperate.

 

[YossarianLives]

I've been waiting to get 2metra's input since he's been handling diplo with our allies so I wanted to make sure he is ok with it before I sent anything. But seeing as how we've got majority support to secure peace + NAP quickly, I'll go ahead and send the message once I'm at a computer.

 

[YossarianLives]

Ok, sent this message:

Hi CivFr,

We are also wanting to end this war. Consider it over. How does a NAP until the end of turn 210 sound?

Team CFC

Also noticed that we had actually sent them this on August 16:

Dear CivFr,

We agree that this war helps no one else except RB. We agree that we need NAP between us too. We are currently discussing details of peace and NAP proposal. We'll get back to you by Monday.

Team CFC

So we were covered there

 

[RegentMan]

Woo howdy!

 

[2metraninja]

I'm back from 38-hours shift at work Yes, I have sent them this short message to let them know we are OK with peace, but need to come with details. I think yesterday was Monday, but basically we need to tell them we need them to accept NAP to t210 with all 3 of us - CFC, CP and Poly. I think Ot4e have told them we work together. Dont know how it will work with Poly. We cant actually propose NAPs on behalf of other teams.

Anyway, I want we to send them something like:

"We agree that this war is not good for both of us and the real threat is elsewhere so we agree on peace between us. We are offering you NAP to t210. NAP conditions are the normal - no one pays nothing for it and no one can declare war to the other side before t210.

But we must ask you to accept NAP with Civplayers and Apolyton too to be sure they wont be distracting from their wars with RB too. We have spoken with them these last days and they said that this is good idea, so formally arranging NAPs with them wont be a problem.

If you agree for NAP with us to t210, we can consider the NAP in effect as soon as you get NAPs with CP and Poly to t210 too.

Team CFC"

 

[2metraninja]

Been very busy those last few days. Sorry about forgetting to post that I have sent them the message of agreeing to end war in principle.

And it is not a problem we have sent them second message asking them what their opinion on NAP to turn 210.

Just getting back to life and the game. Will comment on our diplomatic options and moves a bit later.

Thanks Bistrita for playing the turn.

 

[RegentMan]

Do we need to be the ones to orchestrate this? Can't Apolyton and CP use their own diplomatic team to get NAPs?

 

[2metraninja]

Good point, I asked them the same thing too, but Ot4e said because it is us being now in war and we are about to negotiate with French and if CP and Poly will want extended NAP with CivFR depends on if we get a NAP with CivFR, he said it is up to us to make things happen. But still he prefers to happen quick. I asked him what if we sign peace and NAP with CivFR and then they just move all their army towards Poly's borders? He said: "Good point" too On the other side, MZ is on vacation and barely plays his turns, so it turns out it will be us to make this happen.

 

[Magno_uy]

hmmm.....

I would just sign the NAP and let them free to get into trouble with others...

 

[2metraninja]

hmmm.....

I would just sign the NAP and let them free to get into trouble with others...

Those others are our friends and allies on which we rely to bring RB down together, so we gain nothing in untying CivFR's hands to go make troubles to them.

 

[2metraninja]

Anyone having serious objections on sending the following to all CivFR, CP and Poly?

"Gents,

We agree that this war between CFC and CivFR is not good for any of us and the real threat is elsewhere, so we agree on peace between us. We are offering NAP to t210 between Team CivFR and Team CFC. NAP conditions are as usual - no one pays nothing for it and no one can declare war to the other side before t210.

In the light of the current events with Uciv giving big amounts of money to RB while Civplayers and Apolyton fighting RB hard, we must ask CivFR to accept NAP with Civplayers and Apolyton too to be sure they wont be distracting from their wars with RB. We have spoken with them these last days and they said that this is good idea, so formally arranging NAPs with them wont be a problem.

If you all agree for the 4-side NAP to t210, we can consider the NAP in effect as soon as you reply with a letters of accepting.

Team CFC"

 

[RegentMan]

Anyone having serious objections on sending the following to all CivFR, CP and Poly?

I still think Apolyton and CP should do it themselves, but it's not harming us in sending this, so I don't object.

Should we wait until we get something back from CivFr, though? We have established peace, but they haven't agreed to our turn 210 NAP yet. Let's wait until CivFr replies with "Yes to turn 210!" or "Eh, we'd prefer to turn X," then we can fire off asking about the four-way NAP.