Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

[Caledorn]

Don't take this personally, but it's mostly out of mayhem: I suggesr to replace the RB diplomat. This may be used later as excuse for mistakes. The person hsve to be professional and at the same time being teatrically clumsy.

No personal offense taken.

It's not a half bad idea, considering several of their recent messages are not composed by scooter as far as I can tell. The only problem I see with it is that as Foreign Minister I am at the very least supposed to approve of messages, so I'd have to look another way as you know me well enough to know that I am slightly OCD on things like this

 

[Arkipeller]

No personal offense taken.

It's not a half bad idea, considering several of their recent messages are not composed by scooter as far as I can tell. The only problem I see with it is that as Foreign Minister I am at the very least supposed to approve of messages, so I'd have to look another way as you know me well enough to know that I am slightly OCD on things like this

But you are on vacation and cant read all current mails...
Changing diplomats will buy us time. Maybe even annoyingly much time

 

[Maga_R]

Don't take this personally, but it's mostly out of mayhem: I suggesr to replace the RB diplomat. This may be used later as excuse for mistakes. The person hsve to be professional and at the same time being teatrically clumsy.

Great idea! And RB is not above tricks like that, for sure. If I remember correctly, Scooter's email was not working at a critical time, right? Or something like that?

Let us find a new diplomat to RB - ideally somebody with all kinds of RL trouble - pregnant wife soon to deliver their first baby, internet connection often not working, crucial email accidentally deleted or response send to another team by mistake Of course, such an incompetent person will have to be removed soon from the post due to their obvious incompetency, but the search for the replacement will be loooong - to avoid embarrassment of having another incompetent RB diplomat.

Of course, above examples of RB's diplomat trouble are mostly for our internal entertainment. But I think your idea is brilliant, ArkiBut if simply being generally absent-minded and not being able to stay on the top of one's emails - as in not only not repeating but even reading them - I think I will be a great candidate for your new RB diplomat. I am afraid I am becoming famous on CFC for not being good at answering PMs As Mayic found out recently, one has to declare a war on me to make me even read a short message till the end But I do not have a pregnant wife and internet recently works well at my home. Anyway, I am at the team's disposal and if my qualifications will be found adequate, I will gladly take a job of not answering RB's emails I am really very good at it - and at making excuses for doing so - do it every day, it is my bread and butter :-(. But do not let me know by PM, lol

 

[Maga_R]

But you are on vacation and cant read all current mails...
Changing diplomats will buy us time. Maybe even annoyingly much time

I do not think it will gain as much - but could be fun way of taking revenge for what Scooter did to us

 

[Caledorn]

There is one big issue with this. One of the diplomats on the internal RB MTDG just did the very same deception there..

 

[Maga_R]

There is one big issue with this. One of the diplomats on the internal RB MTDG just did the very same deception there..

Why this is an issue? This is all tongue-in-cheek a bit, but on the other hand my be a lesson not to pull such trick on another - and they did it to us already - in kind - so it is tit-for-tat. The point is not that they will not know - the only point is they will not be completely sure. Or just for for a bit of revenge and/or fun. And you cannot get me to answer your PMs, either (very sorry, you know I ya, right?) so you cannot be held responsible. Unfortunately, I do not have reputation to loose in terms of answering emails properly So if we decide to try that, I should be the best candidate for a new RB diplomat. I do not like to lie or deceive, but not staying on top of my emails is my natural talent.

 

[2metraninja]

So far they only mentioned NAP extension as a way to resolve marble problem, so responding with another way of resolving marble issue should be completely fine, I think.

This is true and works best for us. I like it.

Also, we can't just say "turn 165, take it or leave it". We agreed also that "Both sides will make good-faith effort to be accommodating on the timing of this loan." So what we can do is to tell them honestly the times when we are not using our marble and then ask them to choose.

But we already told them when it is convenient for us. We are not obliged to harm ourselves or change our plans because they have their own plans.

If we ignore their direct question about extending NAP until turn I believe they'll know why we did that. Or at the very least they will reply with "OK, that time frame for Marble works for for us. How about the NAP extension? You didn't tell what you think of that." At that point any excuse we make will sound lame.

Just as Sommers said, when we come to the NAP question, we will discuss NAP. It is cheap to ask for 25 turns on NAP with the lame excuse: "But we are not ready to use the Marble yet." They set the dates window. And our agreement is to give them the Marble when we are BOTH OK with the timing. And it is not like we are not proposing them time frames, we do proposed them few times when it is convenient for us. Just remember they wanted 25 turns of NAP just to give us Stone 1 turn earlier!!!! And now they want to shift Marble gift with whole 20 turns? And they want AGAIN to gain by getting 25 turns of NAP? LOL, this is quite self-confidence to show.

The interesting part here is that they already know the marble is useless come t165, NAP or no NAP. Could it be that they don't really need the marble anymore?

Absolutely they are using the Marble as pretext (and reason) to extend our NAP after t175. They have Marble now from the Germans, so it is not of use for them now. And if they want to build epics, they will do so now.

No, they will never know for sure why we did it - they would only be able to guess. The whole point is to keep them guessing as long as possible. Or perhaps even to guess wrong, but that one would be difficult to pull out remaining honest.

You know game theory well, Aivo, I think. The main insight for me from the game theory was not solution to specific cases, but general insight how valuable it is to keep your opponent guessing. So I would never volunteer unnecessary information, like which turn we will not consider to be "too early" to consider NAP extension. Let us give them the information one bit at the time, while remaining polite and friendly - as long as possible.

Agree with this too.

The missing/incompetent diplomat we can keep as a trick in our arsenal, but I dont think it will do us much good now. We still have 35 turns of NAP. Those are like 3 months IRL.

 

[Caledorn]

Scooter/RB,

We are not ready to discuss a renewal of the NAP at this point. There is still 35 turns left on the current NAP, and a lot of things can happen during those 35 turns that change how both our teams will view a renewal of the NAP. Our suggestion is that we revisit that topic in 15-20 turns.

We are aware of the fact that you are receiving marble from the Germans, and that this probably is the reason why you do not need the marble now. We are doing our best to be as accommodating on this as we can, but we cannot take your deals with other teams into consideration, as that was not part of our original agreement. We were prepared to offer it to you immediately upon our completion of the Taj Mahal, but you denied saying it was a bad time, which we assume was because of your deal with the Germans. Our offer still stands as it has been given: you can either accept the marble before turn 145, or
(((alternative 1: wait 15 turns so we can finish up our own projects that require marble.)))
(((alternative 2: we need to renegotiate the window for when the marble is to be offered, and you must accept it after turn 150 instead.)))

Please let us know your decision.

Caledorn, Foreign Minister of Team CFC

This is just a quick draft I made now, so we have something to work from. Comments, suggestions, feedback etc is welcome as always to perfect it.

Edit: Added the part-sentence where I state that a lot of things can happen during the next turns.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I thought we were just going to ignore their mention of the NAP.

 

[2metraninja]

Yes, I would remove the first sentence completely.

 

[Caledorn]

There we go. How about the rest of it?

I did some other modifications as well.

 

[Caledorn]

Great idea! And RB is not above tricks like that, for sure. If I remember correctly, Scooter's email was not working at a critical time, right? Or something like that?

Let us find a new diplomat to RB - ideally somebody with all kinds of RL trouble - pregnant wife soon to deliver their first baby, internet connection often not working, crucial email accidentally deleted or response send to another team by mistake Of course, such an incompetent person will have to be removed soon from the post due to their obvious incompetency, but the search for the replacement will be loooong - to avoid embarrassment of having another incompetent RB diplomat.

Of course, above examples of RB's diplomat trouble are mostly for our internal entertainment. But I think your idea is brilliant, ArkiBut if simply being generally absent-minded and not being able to stay on the top of one's emails - as in not only not repeating but even reading them - I think I will be a great candidate for your new RB diplomat. I am afraid I am becoming famous on CFC for not being good at answering PMs As Mayic found out recently, one has to declare a war on me to make me even read a short message till the end But I do not have a pregnant wife and internet recently works well at my home. Anyway, I am at the team's disposal and if my qualifications will be found adequate, I will gladly take a job of not answering RB's emails I am really very good at it - and at making excuses for doing so - do it every day, it is my bread and butter :-(. But do not let me know by PM, lol

I think we will keep you as our Defunct-Diplomat-in-waiting for now. We may need this trick at a more crucial time, for instance when RB gets serious about renegotiating that NAP.

BTW.. Can I declare war upon you to get you to answer my PMs?

 

[2metraninja]

The rest is good. I would only clear the dates in the options:
I think

(((alternative 1: wait 15 turns so we can finish up our own projects that require marble.)))

means

(((alternative 1: wait get it from turn 160 so we can finish up our own projects that require marble.)))

which makes the second option not very clear:

(((alternative 2: we need to renegotiate the window for when the marble is to be offered, and you must accept it after turn 150 instead.)))

So we dont really have 2 sub-options.

The two option as whole must be either they take it from t145 to t155, or they take it from t165 to t175.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The two option as whole must be either they take it from t145 to t155, or they take it from t165 to t175.

Yes this is exactly how we must put it to them.

 

[Maga_R]

I think we will keep you as our Defunct-Diplomat-in-waiting for now. We may need this trick at a more crucial time, for instance when RB gets serious about renegotiating that NAP.

BTW.. Can I declare war upon you to get you to answer my PMs?

Yeah, I was not drinking that night, but was in the same mood as Arki got ;-) Just wanted the team now that I would be a great defunct-diplomat if you ever need one ;-)

PS Well, you can try to DoW me to get your PMs answered - but it gets you only one PM to be read per each DoW . Another problem is I am only playing in one Pitboss now and you are not on the same one ;-)

 

[Caledorn]

Scooter/RB,

We are aware of the fact that you are receiving marble from the Germans, and that this probably is the reason why you do not need the marble now. We are doing our best to be as accommodating on this as we can, but we cannot take your deals with other teams into consideration, as that was not part of our original agreement. We were prepared to offer it to you immediately upon our completion of the Taj Mahal, but you denied saying it was a bad time, which we assume was because of your deal with the Germans. As things stand now, you can either accept the marble before (or on) turn 145, or you will have to wait until turn 165.

Please let us know your decision.

Caledorn, Foreign Minister of Team CFC

So, is this nearing completion then?

 

[Maga_R]

So, is this nearing completion then?

Sounds very good, I think. Only a bit harsh - perhaps we can add a softening sentence at the very end? Like "Hope you will understand"?,

 

[whb]

Perhaps phrase it a little more diplomatically. That draft telegraphs that relations have soured, while we'd quite like them to think we'll be pals a little longer.

Scooter,

We're aware you've been receiving marble from the Germans for some time (even before we built Taj), but obviously we don't know when your deal with them finishes or whether it even has a finish date. Because you didn't tell us about your deal with them. Obviously we can't just say we'll fit our plans around whichever turn in the future you happen to choose to end your deal with Germany -- we have to get on with our game too and can't just stand forever waiting in the wings for you to be sick of your deal with them before you'll accept the marble from us. But to help you out and encourage continued good relations, we are pleased to offer you two options: 1) turns 145-155, or (2) turns 165-175.

 

[YossarianLives]

I've been worrying a bit. Is there any chance they could be setting us up to use this as a way to weasel out of our NAP? By trying to say that if they don't get Marble by T140 (to keep the window inside of T150), then our NAP is void. Could we be the target of that new big army?

Edit: Just realized we're at T141 already. Hopefully that makes this less likely? Or they will try to use it to get out of the NAP at T150?

 

[Caledorn]

I've been worrying a bit. Is there any chance they could be setting us up to use this as a way to weasel out of our NAP? By trying to say that if they don't get Marble by T140 (to keep the window inside of T150), then our NAP is void. Could we be the target of that new big army?

Edit: Just realized we're at T141 already. Hopefully that makes this less likely? Or they will try to use it to get out of the NAP at T150?

That would be highly dubious, since we have offered them the marble twice now..