Formula 1 2009
- Thread starter Formaldehyde
- Start date
MCdread
Couldn't she get drowned?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2001
- Messages
- 5,348
I wonder if things like this don't happen all the time in F1. I mean, not this kind of move in particular, which is kinda atrocious for someone seeing from the outside at least, but clever little unsporting tricks, some of which get caught, others don't and never surface. But maybe this time FIA went to the bottom of it as it plays as a nice cold revenge for Max Mosley to serve on Briatore. After all the bloody clashes from this year, they're now both going out of the sport, but Briatore goes first and through a much smaller door than Mosley...
azzaman333
meh
It doesn't surprise me at all that this would happen in a highly competitive situation.
People love doing anything to win.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Sofista
Deity
I understand the maneuvring. Seems like in F1 overtaking is considered passé, so Bernie "the Second doctor" is trying to gather interest in different ways.
We've had espionage, we've had nazi orgies, now this brief, behind the curtains execution. I bet he's examining the different autocracies F1 has been incerasingly traveling to these past years, to see where the live trial by ordeal of Montezemolo might legally take place...
We've had espionage, we've had nazi orgies, now this brief, behind the curtains execution. I bet he's examining the different autocracies F1 has been incerasingly traveling to these past years, to see where the live trial by ordeal of Montezemolo might legally take place...
GravityWave
Deposed Emperor
Na, Max is still scared witless of Monty. If Monty did a show trial involving Max and Bernie I'd pay to watch, but unfortunately Ferrari would have too much to lose.
ThERat
Deity
the verdict is out and the travesty continues
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
It was interesting to see how well Renault did after all the controversy. Perhaps the team principal and chief engineer aren't all that important after all. 
I wonder if Nelson Piquet will ever drive professionally again. Most teams 'cheat', either by interpreting the rules in a manner which was not intended, or overtly in cases such as this. And they all have skeletons in their closet.
What I find really interesting is that Alonso was involved in both recent cheating controversies, yet he has come out of them both remarkably unscathed. He was even allowed to keep his win from last year. And it certainly hasn't damaged his career, even though Ron Dennis basically stated that he was being blackmailed by Alonso.
I wonder if Nelson Piquet will ever drive professionally again. Most teams 'cheat', either by interpreting the rules in a manner which was not intended, or overtly in cases such as this. And they all have skeletons in their closet.
What I find really interesting is that Alonso was involved in both recent cheating controversies, yet he has come out of them both remarkably unscathed. He was even allowed to keep his win from last year. And it certainly hasn't damaged his career, even though Ron Dennis basically stated that he was being blackmailed by Alonso.
I think there were quite a few people who disliked Ron Dennis. You could say the same about Alonso but he is former world champion so I guess it would not reflect well on the sport if he was heavily criticised. Similar to how Schumacher was never heavily punished even when he tried to take someone out.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
And Senna took out Prost. Some things never change.
But what are you going to do in such situations? If the stewards are too heavy-handed nobody will ever try to pass.
But what are you going to do in such situations? If the stewards are too heavy-handed nobody will ever try to pass.
Yep they can't do much in the same way that it wasn't in the FIA's interest to punish Renault. I think its a reasonably logical stance to take which I guess I agree with but its not exactly right and gives the impression that you only get punished if you are expendable or in the way. In a sense the two things Piquet did wrong were: being too slow and not causing an incident to win himself.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Based on your recent comments, you seem to think the sport is dominated by favoritism and a not-so-hidden agenda.
Are there politics involved, as there are with any multi-billion-dollar sport? Obviously.
Do the stewards penalize some people differently than others based on their team or their international standing? I certainly don't think so. They are far removed from Bernie, and even Max Mosley, in any case. If anything, the system is set up to be so non-political that there are occasionally stewards who don't know all that much about the sport, which results in a certain amount of incosistency that usually doesn't happen with sanctioning bodies that use the same officials for all the races.
F1 isn't pro wrestling, or even NASCAR. The fact that Brawn and Red Bull are the two prominent teams at the moment attests to that. If things were really rigged, Ferrari and McLaren would still be dominating as they did when there were essentially no limits on spending and testing.
Are there politics involved, as there are with any multi-billion-dollar sport? Obviously.
Do the stewards penalize some people differently than others based on their team or their international standing? I certainly don't think so. They are far removed from Bernie, and even Max Mosley, in any case. If anything, the system is set up to be so non-political that there are occasionally stewards who don't know all that much about the sport, which results in a certain amount of incosistency that usually doesn't happen with sanctioning bodies that use the same officials for all the races.
F1 isn't pro wrestling, or even NASCAR. The fact that Brawn and Red Bull are the two prominent teams at the moment attests to that. If things were really rigged, Ferrari and McLaren would still be dominating as they did when there were essentially no limits on spending and testing.
Krill
Deity
The reason Brawn are doing well seems to be down to Ross Brawn being an evil genius, the car taking advantage of the rules misunderstanding and playing the Buttons' advantage for the first 7 races, and the timely return to form the Mclaren and Ferrari teams. Definately nothing about political advantages there...
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Well, Brawn wasn't the only "evil genius". Two other teams interpreted the rules the same way. And other teams had as well, until they were specifically told by the FIA that it would be illegal to intrepret the rules that way.
Another element was that Honda had effectively given up on the 2008 season because their chassis was so bad. Instead, they had spent most of their time developing the 2009 chassis, while the other teams were still busy refining the 2008 configuration in order to better compete. This gave the Brawn team a further leg up on the competition.
Then there was the tactical decision whether or not to develop the KERS. Only McLaren and Ferrari spent any large amount of time trying to get an effective implementation working, despite the weight penalty which will disappear next year.
Typically, when there have been major rules changes the top teams are usually the ones who have fared better due to cubic dollars. The restrictions on testing days have really leveled the playing field in that regard.
Next year, however, will likely be the year of the KERS, so I expect the advantage will once again return to the two traditionally best teams. It will be interesting to see how well Brawn and the other teams do implementing this complex technology.
Personally, I don't like this much variation in the rules. I think all elements should either be required or banned with no middle ground subject to interpretation. When the first team came to the FIA regarding the legality of a double diffuser design, they should have made it clear publicly at that time whether such a design was either legal or not. And this year, all the cars should either be running KERS or not.
Another element was that Honda had effectively given up on the 2008 season because their chassis was so bad. Instead, they had spent most of their time developing the 2009 chassis, while the other teams were still busy refining the 2008 configuration in order to better compete. This gave the Brawn team a further leg up on the competition.
Then there was the tactical decision whether or not to develop the KERS. Only McLaren and Ferrari spent any large amount of time trying to get an effective implementation working, despite the weight penalty which will disappear next year.
Typically, when there have been major rules changes the top teams are usually the ones who have fared better due to cubic dollars. The restrictions on testing days have really leveled the playing field in that regard.
Next year, however, will likely be the year of the KERS, so I expect the advantage will once again return to the two traditionally best teams. It will be interesting to see how well Brawn and the other teams do implementing this complex technology.
Personally, I don't like this much variation in the rules. I think all elements should either be required or banned with no middle ground subject to interpretation. When the first team came to the FIA regarding the legality of a double diffuser design, they should have made it clear publicly at that time whether such a design was either legal or not. And this year, all the cars should either be running KERS or not.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8280566.stm
So now it's official that Alonso will replace Räikkönen. Of course I had heard all the talk during last months but still I am surprised. After all he did well, winning the title in 2007 and doing as well as possible with a non-competitive car this season. I bet Alonso brought a crapload of sponsor money (i.e. Banco Santander euros).
Well I just hope Räikkönen will be in a competitive team next year. Maybe return to McLaren replace Kovalainen? He has been quite a disappointment for McLaren and the team has a tradition with Finnish drivers. Though I don't know if McLaren has traumas of having no clear "number one driver" from 2007. Surely Hamilton won't be leaving McLaren for a while.
So now it's official that Alonso will replace Räikkönen. Of course I had heard all the talk during last months but still I am surprised. After all he did well, winning the title in 2007 and doing as well as possible with a non-competitive car this season. I bet Alonso brought a crapload of sponsor money (i.e. Banco Santander euros).
Well I just hope Räikkönen will be in a competitive team next year. Maybe return to McLaren replace Kovalainen? He has been quite a disappointment for McLaren and the team has a tradition with Finnish drivers.
Though I don't know if McLaren has traumas of having no clear "number one driver" from 2007. Surely Hamilton won't be leaving McLaren for a while.
Darth_Pugwash
wobble wobble
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2003
- Messages
- 2,873
Is anybody really suprised by this? Surely one of the best known 'secrets' in the history of the sport, the only real question being whether Fernando would make the switch in 2010 or 2011.
I have a feeling that the Kimi to McLaren rumours are correct, and that he'll replace Kovi for next year. Raikkonen and Hamilton alongside each other at McLaren would be a treat, hopefully there will be no bad blood between the two as between Alonso and Hamilton back in 07, it's always a shame when the competition gets tarnished like that.
Massa-Alonso v Hamilton-Raikkonen could make for a titanic championship battle next year!
I have a feeling that the Kimi to McLaren rumours are correct, and that he'll replace Kovi for next year. Raikkonen and Hamilton alongside each other at McLaren would be a treat, hopefully there will be no bad blood between the two as between Alonso and Hamilton back in 07, it's always a shame when the competition gets tarnished like that.
Massa-Alonso v Hamilton-Raikkonen could make for a titanic championship battle next year!
Well in Finland we are used to hearing all sorts of rumors about Räikkönen so I thought that this would only be one of them
The real surprise for me was that it indeed happens in 2010.
GravityWave
Deposed Emperor
I think Raikkonen is so laid back he wouldn't notice if Hamilton was being given an F1 car and him a go-cart. That said, I don't think McLaren will favour either and it will be interesting to see if Raikkonen returns to a consistent form when/if he returns to McLaren's clinical culture.
Massa vs Alonso is the one that'll be really interesting. Will Alonso be expecting number 1 status(?), and if so will it turn in to a nightmare for Ferrari if Massa equals his performance? Massa has grown up a lot in the last couple of seasons (except when it rains
) and I really can't guess who'll come up on top. In many ways I wish next season was this, despite Button doing so well.Similar threads
