Formula 1 2009

[azzaman333]

Red Bull seem to have an excellent car for wet conditions.

 

[Rossiya]

Button third. He did well.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Accept their decision regarding diffisusers please.

Once again, it's not about 'accepting' or even 'denying' "their decision". It is about have a balanced forum for fair competition. The FIA obviously failed abysmally in their attempt to achieve it this year. It's a real shame because this season was set to be one of the best, and now it will always be remembered as being tainted by a distinct unfair advantage which will be nearly impossible for most teams to overcome until next year due to limited testing.

And grats to Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull on their first GP win. I'm sure it won't be the last for either one. They don't have the trick diffuser nor do they have a KERS, yet they have managed to still be competitive without them and are apparently dominant in the wet when neither one are all that important.

 

[Rossiya]

It's a real shame because this season was set to be one of the best, and now it will always be remembered as being tainted by a distinct unfair advantage which will be nearly impossible for most teams to overcome.

I disagree. I am sure many would agree that the last few seasons of Schumacher's dominance were complete wastes of time. That is a far worse distinction.

 

[dutchfire]

Formaldehyde, the only one whining about the diffuser is you.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

Funny how so many teams get their first wins in 1-2s - Jordan in 1998, BMW last year, and now Red Bull. It was a great race.

They don't have the trick diffuser nor do they have a KERS, yet they have managed to still be competitive without them and are apparently dominant in the wet when neither one are all that important.

Extra downforce is actually very valuable in wet conditions due to limited mechanical grip.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Formaldehyde, the only one whining about the diffuser is you.

That just shows how little you really understand about the sport. But that's OK. You can still enjoy it even if you don't get the importance of all the technical details. Perhaps this article will help you to understand what this controversy all about, and why I am far from the only one "whining about the diffuser":

http://www.forumula1.net/2009/f1/dr...-hamilton/diffusers-explained-as-d-day-looms/

With an announcement from the FIA expected within the next twenty four hours on the legality of the controversial ‘double-decker’ diffuser, Forumula1.net takes a closer look at the device which could make-or-break Jenson Button’s championship charge.

What is a diffuser?

The diffuser on a Formula One car is a crucial aerodynamic component that sits on the floor of the car between the rear wheels and under the rear wing. It works by sucking in the underbody airflow and reducing the air pressure underneath the car to increase downforce and grip.

How have the diffusers changed for 2009?

The 2009 regulations have been designed to spur overtaking by enabling the cars to run closer together through reducing downforce levels. These aerodynamic changes have included a smaller diffuser in a more rearward position.

The new regulations now limit the main part of the diffuser to a width of 1000mm, a length of 350mm and a height of 175mm. All of the channels must be the same height and length, with no difference in height between the main central section and the side channels.

Why have teams protested against the diffusers on the Brawn GP, Williams and Toyota cars?

McLaren, Ferrari, Renault and BMW Sauber all made very literal interpretations of the rules and designed a single 1000mm wide diffuser channel that is the same height all the way across.

Brawn GP, Williams, and Toyota, on the other hand, exploited a loophole in the rules that says that the diffuser is merely one section of the wider bodywork structure.

While the protesting teams have just a single diffuser channel, Brawn, Williams and Toyota have cleverly split their diffuser into three using the rear crash structure as a central channel. This lengthens and heightens the diffuser’s central section, which creates a bigger diffuser exist area. This in turn enables the air to flow through faster which generates more downforce.

If the diffusers are declared legal the rest of the field will be forced develop their own designs which could see the current diffuser gang dominate the season as a result of their head start. Renault have a design ready to run in this weekend’s Chinese Grand Prix, while Ferrari recently restructured their trackside operations to integrate new components such as this onto their car quicker

Besides the logistical problems involved in making changes of this scale, there are also high costs involved which many teams have complained about.

Extra downforce is actually very valuable in wet conditions due to limited mechanical grip.

Ground effects downforce is of primary concern on high speed corners. That is why the double decker diffuser cars dominated during qualifying at Malaysia where there were a lot of high-speed corners and the track was dry. When it is raining, ground effects downforce is of even less concern because the corner speeds are diminished greatly, especially on the high-speed ones. Consequently, the amount of downforce generated is much lower.

But you are right in the sense that downforce is still important in the wet. Any grip you can manage to get is important regardless of the amount.

 

[Rossiya]

Well done, Button.

 

[dutchfire]

I hate to say this Rossiya, but you're nearly as predictable in your posts as Formaldehyde

 

[Dell19]

He did do well and managed to make the key overtake which Vettel and Trulli both failed to do later on in the race. A bit of luck though as Hamilton passing Vettel at the start allowed Button to go around the outside of Vettel.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well done, Button.

Yeah. That was a great race for him. This may very well be his year.

 

[GravityWave]

Yeah. That was a great race for him. This may very well be his year.

Considering they had to cut holes in the back of the Brawn to stop it overheating it was certainly a stunning performance, if they can keep the momentum and win in Barcelona when everyone else has their new parts it'll be time to start thinking 'can anyone stop Button being world champion?' Can't wait.

In other news it's sounds like Bernie's told Max to let McLaren off with a slap of the wrist, and since Ron's gone he might just (being disqualified from the race and losing the Sports Director is enough in my view as others have done far worse and got away with it).

 

[Formaldehyde]

Link to video.


Link to video.

 

[tycoonist]

another weekend, another pole for button.

on the other hand, it looks like Ferrari could finally be about to kickstart their season. i reckon it will be another win for Brawn, but i think their will be a decent challenge from massa and vettel in his RB as well. thoughts?

 

[azzaman333]

another weekend, another pole for button.

on the other hand, it looks like Ferrari could finally be about to kickstart their season. i reckon it will be another win for Brawn, but i think their will be a decent challenge from massa and vettel in his RB as well. thoughts?

I think a Brawn 1-2, Red Bull 3-4.

 

[GravityWave]

Good win by Button. Barrichello is hinting at possible "team orders" ... but perhaps the real reason he didn't win the race and spent all those years playing second fiddle to Schumacher is because he just isn't good enough?

Massa almost running out of fuel was funny, I'm really liking Ferrari so far this year.

The race was largely as boring as ever, and unfortunately there is an other snoozefest to not look forward to in Spain again at Valencia. Monaco up next, and the field should be even closer with the entertainment coming from Piquet Jnr thinking he's in a demolition derby. Will probably be the only race this year where Hamilton can think about victory, though I expect Button and Vetal to be leading the way again.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Good win by Button. Barrichello is hinting at possible "team orders" ... but perhaps the real reason he didn't win the race and spent all those years playing second fiddle to Schumacher is because he just isn't good enough?

That was clearly Rubens' win until he got team orders to make an additional unnecessary pit stop. Furtehrmore, it was obvious he did exactly the same thing a number of times at Ferrari. To claim he isn't good enough is absurd beyond belief. After all, he was clearly leading and pulling away even though he had 2 or 3 additional laps worth of fuel. The poor guy was practically crying during the post-race interview while making excuses for his team. Button even said "sorry Rubens" on the radio during his cool-down lap.

So no, it wasn't a "good win" for Button. Far from it. But it was inevitable because F1 has always been, and will always be, about team orders.

 

[Rossiya]

That was clearly Rubens' win until he got team orders to make an additional unnecessary pit stop. Furtehrmore, it was obvious he did exactly the same thing a number of times at Ferrari. To claim he isn't good enough is absurd beyond belief. After all, he was clearly leading and pulling away even though he had 2 or 3 additional laps worth of fuel. The poor guy was practically crying during the post-race interview while making excuses for his team. Button even said "sorry Rubens" on the radio during his cool-down lap.

So no, it wasn't a "good win" for Button. Far from it. But it was inevitable because F1 has always been, and will always be, about team orders.

If you moan about Formula 1 so much, why don't you stop watching it? Because a lot of us here are getting annoyed at your incessant rants. There is a rant thread in OT for that. Yeah, I agree with you on Barrichello in Spain; he probably was cheated out of that victory, but he still came 2nd, he still got 8 points, and who knows, maybe he did need that extra pit stop.

 

[Formaldehyde]

If you moan about Formula 1 so much, why don't you stop watching it? Because a lot of us here are getting annoyed at your incessant rants.

So you speak for everybody else as well as yourself, huh?

Yeah, I agree with you on Barrichello in Spain.

Then it can't exactly be called "moaning" and "incessant rants", now cant it? Or are you accusing yourself as well?

I've got a suggestion for you. If you don't like my posts all that much then don't read them, because I am going to continue to post my opinions regardless of how you personally feel about it.

To understand free speech means freedom to speak what others do not like and even cannot stand to hear? ... Tolerating what you like is hardly a major achievement. Hitler tolerated what he liked. So did Stalin. Idi Amin did too. So did Genghis Khan, the Shah, and Henry Kissinger. Free speech only becomes an issue when someone says what others don't want to hear. Michael Albert


Moderator Action: Back on the topic please.

 

[azzaman333]

That was clearly Rubens' win until he got team orders to make an additional unnecessary pit stop. Furtehrmore, it was obvious he did exactly the same thing a number of times at Ferrari. To claim he isn't good enough is absurd beyond belief. After all, he was clearly leading and pulling away even though he had 2 or 3 additional laps worth of fuel. The poor guy was practically crying during the post-race interview while making excuses for his team. Button even said "sorry Rubens" on the radio during his cool-down lap.

So no, it wasn't a "good win" for Button. Far from it. But it was inevitable because F1 has always been, and will always be, about team orders.

It was a good win for Button, it's not his fault there is the question of whether Barichello was compromised by the team.