r_rolo1
King of myself
No sign of nothing more advanced than a axe so far... but Louis should have IW now, so there should be swords at least 
Fox-20 -- The Harsh War
- Thread starter GreyFox
- Start date
Well done on another foe vanquished.
I'd move on Louis rather than Hatty. Knock down the top dogs first.
I'd move on Louis rather than Hatty. Knock down the top dogs first.
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
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I disagree with a number of your MM decisions (more on that when I play 
), but it looks like the way forward is fairly clear.
My rough thoughts:
1) Build a road(s) toward the distant front
2) Focus on units first, tech second
3) Choose Engineering after Machinery is finished
I like Engineering because: Trebs are awesome (and will prevail over the LBs that should show up at some point), pikeman are good, and the +1 road movement is actually very valuable since our foes are so far away. These three outweigh the benefits of Civil Service since we are so close to the end. Agreed?
I'll play in ~2 hours.
), but it looks like the way forward is fairly clear.My rough thoughts:
1) Build a road(s) toward the distant front
2) Focus on units first, tech second
3) Choose Engineering after Machinery is finished
I like Engineering because: Trebs are awesome (and will prevail over the LBs that should show up at some point), pikeman are good, and the +1 road movement is actually very valuable since our foes are so far away. These three outweigh the benefits of Civil Service since we are so close to the end. Agreed?
I'll play in ~2 hours.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Fine with me..... Eng will also give castles: with more 1 coin per city and 25% in espionage ( to use cats only in collateral 
) they can be good assets.
) they can be good assets.
I started a road to the front with captured workers but they landed next to a previously unseen Louis force after roading two squares and I deleted them.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I know, but my workers we're pretty busy chopping forges and courthouses... Now with the workers captured to Persia already in our land we can resume it.... We can also use the Ex Japanese roads to cut some work... I didn't pillaged them exactly because of that.
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I played 20 turns and for a change it almost felt like an Always War game
[minor rant]
Sorry for the rant rolo, but this doesn't make much sense:
I found 2 groups of 6 workers and 1 group of 3 workers in total. This is bad because when moving onto un-roaded hills and/or forests we loose a lot of worker turns.
For example consider a simple thought experiment: we have six workers and six plains hill forests that need to be chopped. Lets see how fast we can turn those trees into timber.
Case1: A single group of six workers.
On Epic speed it takes 6-worker turns to chop a plains hill, so a group of six workers may look fine. We move the workers onto hill one, chopping next turn. On turn three we move onto the next hill, etc ... in total it will take a minimum of 12 turns to chop all those hill forests.
Case2: 6 single workers.
On turn one each worker moves onto his own hill, and starts chopping on turn two. 6 turns later all the forests are chopped for a total of 7 turns. If the hills aren't right next to each other the single workers do even better.
Worker-turns are a very important resource in Civ, and should be maximized. Case2 is so much better its like having Serfdom+Hagia Sophia for free
[/minor rant]
I also veto the aqueduct in Vienne since I plan on settling Sparkling Crabs soon -- Vienne will stagnate at +1 pop anyways.
On my second turn I see a real stack approaching:
Rather than meet Louis in the forest I'll wait (with our main stack) inside Celtia. Louis plays along:
We win at the cost of a cat and an axe. So the long march towards France commences.
Meanwhile a GSci is born a turn after Machinery is completed. He can bulb Alphabet
The best use seems to be a Golden Age to speed us along to Engineering:
Switching Vienne+Bibracte to wealth means that Engineering will be finished in 9 turns, just as the golden age ends (at 80% science)
Before our army reaches France we meet a Hatsh stack:
Its killed with minimal loses.
And a turn later:
This is where I get a little annoyed (with myself). Originally we fortified our stack on a Forested Hill in front on Louis and he suicided ... I go to get a screen from the log ... ooops. Reload from the autosave. Defeat the Egyptian stack again When we meet Louis again he refuses to suicide, so I attack him (on a rare open square). This time I lost a cat/axe/chariot triplet when *last* time I didn't loose anything. 
Oh well, now that Realms Beyond approved the BUG mod I'm getting it -- if partially to avoid reloads
Edit: RB has not actually approved BUG
I stopped playing one turn before Engineering as it is also the last turn of the Golden Age (meaning a free civic swap if the next player want one, I don't see the need).
The current front:
There is another small Egyptian stack that doesn't pose a threat (its War Chariots+Cats, so no tile defense ), and we've discovered borders of both a new French and a new Egyptian city. I'd still hit the French first - they are researching Horseback Riding, and have finished Monarchy (so Feudalism is open).
Please build a road here:
After Engineering I'd probably go for Civil Service before shutting down tech for the game. It could be turned off next turn if we're feeling strong.
Roster
-- GreyFox
-- Ozbenno
-- r_rolo1
-- Olodune
-- Jabah << Attacking the French
-- berserks01 << Deck
And a save:
[minor rant]
Sorry for the rant rolo, but this doesn't make much sense:
I found 2 groups of 6 workers and 1 group of 3 workers in total. This is bad because when moving onto un-roaded hills and/or forests we loose a lot of worker turns.
For example consider a simple thought experiment: we have six workers and six plains hill forests that need to be chopped. Lets see how fast we can turn those trees into timber.
Case1: A single group of six workers.
On Epic speed it takes 6-worker turns to chop a plains hill, so a group of six workers may look fine. We move the workers onto hill one, chopping next turn. On turn three we move onto the next hill, etc ... in total it will take a minimum of 12 turns to chop all those hill forests.
Case2: 6 single workers.
On turn one each worker moves onto his own hill, and starts chopping on turn two. 6 turns later all the forests are chopped for a total of 7 turns. If the hills aren't right next to each other the single workers do even better.
Worker-turns are a very important resource in Civ, and should be maximized. Case2 is so much better its like having Serfdom+Hagia Sophia for free
[/minor rant]
I also veto the aqueduct in Vienne since I plan on settling Sparkling Crabs soon -- Vienne will stagnate at +1 pop anyways.
On my second turn I see a real stack approaching:
Rather than meet Louis in the forest I'll wait (with our main stack) inside Celtia. Louis plays along:
We win at the cost of a cat and an axe. So the long march towards France commences.
Meanwhile a GSci is born a turn after Machinery is completed. He can bulb Alphabet
The best use seems to be a Golden Age to speed us along to Engineering:
Switching Vienne+Bibracte to wealth means that Engineering will be finished in 9 turns, just as the golden age ends (at 80% science)
Before our army reaches France we meet a Hatsh stack:
Its killed with minimal loses.
And a turn later:
This is where I get a little annoyed (with myself). Originally we fortified our stack on a Forested Hill in front on Louis and he suicided ... I go to get a screen from the log ... ooops. Reload from the autosave. Defeat the Egyptian stack again
When we meet Louis again he refuses to suicide, so I attack him (on a rare open square). This time I lost a cat/axe/chariot triplet when *last* time I didn't loose anything. Oh well, now that Realms Beyond approved the BUG mod I'm getting it -- if partially to avoid reloads Edit: RB has not actually approved BUG
I stopped playing one turn before Engineering as it is also the last turn of the Golden Age (meaning a free civic swap if the next player want one, I don't see the need).
The current front:
There is another small Egyptian stack that doesn't pose a threat (its War Chariots+Cats, so no tile defense
), and we've discovered borders of both a new French and a new Egyptian city. I'd still hit the French first - they are researching Horseback Riding, and have finished Monarchy (so Feudalism is open).Please build a road here:
After Engineering I'd probably go for Civil Service before shutting down tech for the game. It could be turned off next turn if we're feeling strong.
Roster
-- GreyFox
-- Ozbenno
-- r_rolo1
-- Olodune
-- Jabah << Attacking the French
-- berserks01 << Deck
And a save:
Good progress. If Louis has Monarchy then we need to get to him first.
I'd research CS and HBR before switching off research. If one of the AI gets Feudalism, I'd research that then Guilds as well.
Did RB approve the BUG mod? Didn't think ruff was even going to try and get it approved. Surprising.
I'd research CS and HBR before switching off research. If one of the AI gets Feudalism, I'd research that then Guilds as well.
Did RB approve the BUG mod? Didn't think ruff was even going to try and get it approved. Surprising.
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
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Note to self: read threads more carefully before linking.
Has ruff figured out the reason for the log crash?
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That's not BUG
Ooops, guess reloads will have to do
I think I'll remove that link now ...Jabah
Emperor
I have it, I will try to play tonight.
Jabah
Jabah
r_rolo1
King of myself
Remember to research alphabet before switching research off..... Spies can still be useful, as we are already pilling 
vs Louis for a while.
vs Louis for a while.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Seems like good progress .... personally, I agree engineering is better than CS for us at this stage as well. I don't think CS is absolutely needed, so it depends on the economic situation. If we need more money to field more troops against Loius/Hatty, then by all means sacrifice research for gpt.
--
--
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Its not often that Engineering is beelined (at least in my games), so its fun when the opportunity presents itself. Since Hatty is still focused on War Chariots, and Louis is teching Horseback Riding, our pikes should have a field day.
Jabah
Emperor
T0 - 990AD (T244)
We have far too many units (for maintenance), I understand why 2 cities were on wealth, but I can't stand having our capital not building unit.
T1 - 1000AD
Engineering-> CS
Louis has built the AP (for Xtian)... trouble ?
T3 - 1020
View Chartres, holy city for Christianism
We have 1WW now.
T4 - 1030AD
View Pi-Rammeses
found 'Maoi -city', finance get slightly worse.
Change research CS->Alphabet, as we could steal tech from Louis easily with all our EP
T6 - 1050AD
chartres was bombed a bit for 2t (too slow)
suicide 3 cats
Raze Chartres (2 axes partisan).
At Pi-ramesses
bombard twice, send 3 cat (all retreat)
raze (2 warrior partisan)
T8 - 1070AD
Use our GG on the woodIII axe to get a WoodIIIMedicIII super healer. (just need to make sure he is not ddefending too much)
T9 - 1080AD
Thks to raze/pillage money we are teching faster.
Alphabet->CS
Louis has build Hanging Gargen (nice cash for us next turn as Vienne was building it)
T13 - 1120AD
found Gepid with a razing force.
T14 - 1130AD
Gelid razed without casualty.
T16 - 1150AD
Forbidden Palace in teno
stable at 40%, CS in 5-6t
2 stacks [pictures after] going for rampage one in France (carefully as the ennemy has enough various troops), hte other on the borders of Egypt (first for new cities)
A small 'regrouping party' is on the pass controling that no one is going through and waiting for reinforcement to go to any of the 2 razeing army.
1 archer is on the road closer to home, checking that no one is around (an egyptian archer was between him and the northern sea and disappeared a while ago.
No news from the AP, maybe we razed it in chartres (didn't check)
Jabah
save attached
We have far too many units (for maintenance), I understand why 2 cities were on wealth, but I can't stand having our capital not building unit.
T1 - 1000AD
Engineering-> CS
Louis has built the AP (for Xtian)... trouble ?
T3 - 1020
View Chartres, holy city for Christianism
We have 1WW now.
T4 - 1030AD
View Pi-Rammeses
found 'Maoi -city', finance get slightly worse.
Change research CS->Alphabet, as we could steal tech from Louis easily with all our EP
T6 - 1050AD
chartres was bombed a bit for 2t (too slow)
suicide 3 cats
Raze Chartres (2 axes partisan).
At Pi-ramesses
bombard twice, send 3 cat (all retreat)
raze (2 warrior partisan)
T8 - 1070AD
Use our GG on the woodIII axe to get a WoodIIIMedicIII super healer. (just need to make sure he is not ddefending too much)
T9 - 1080AD
Thks to raze/pillage money we are teching faster.
Alphabet->CS
Louis has build Hanging Gargen (nice cash for us next turn as Vienne was building it)
T13 - 1120AD
found Gepid with a razing force.
T14 - 1130AD
Gelid razed without casualty.
T16 - 1150AD
Forbidden Palace in teno
stable at 40%, CS in 5-6t
2 stacks [pictures after] going for rampage one in France (carefully as the ennemy has enough various troops), hte other on the borders of Egypt (first for new cities)
A small 'regrouping party' is on the pass controling that no one is going through and waiting for reinforcement to go to any of the 2 razeing army.
1 archer is on the road closer to home, checking that no one is around (an egyptian archer was between him and the northern sea and disappeared a while ago.
No news from the AP, maybe we razed it in chartres (didn't check)
Jabah
save attached
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Excellent turns, Jabah 
A few things:
-The AP is in Orleans, looks like it will soon be no more
-Our gold reserves are a tad on the low side, building up to ~50g would give us more immunity from random events.
-Bibracte and Vienne are suffering from WW, I'm not sure how to deal with it, but perhaps focusing both our city razing stacks in France would help?
-Great call on Alphabet for tech stealing
A few things:
-The AP is in Orleans, looks like it will soon be no more
-Our gold reserves are a tad on the low side, building up to ~50g would give us more immunity from random events.
-Bibracte and Vienne are suffering from WW, I'm not sure how to deal with it, but perhaps focusing both our city razing stacks in France would help?
-Great call on Alphabet for tech stealing
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