Checking-in! And seeing our bad joke streak is on fire again!
Mr. Fox, I think this is an even more suicidal attempt than the last one. The barbs can slow the AI down but only until a point the land is taken. Let's !
Don't despair, FB... I already read some post of players claming that raging barbs had gifted them a conquest victory after they had build the GW... ( And this in Warlords... In BtS, with those crazy barb events, things can get even nastier )
Nice start, GreyFox ( as usual )... one more archer would be handy, to make a swap protection of the quarry and the gold. And some kind of naval patrol would be in hands, even after GW ( you know, the GW does not extent into deep sea ), but that is a far more remote worry.
I was wondering why those barbs entered our borders around 3000 BC. I thought that was early for immortal then I rememberer we're playing with raging barbs
We don't want them killing off one or two civs since that'll just give room to expand for the others... we just want them gimped for 4000 years until at least 1 AD
An archer on a hill fortified should be good for at least 2 archers. If you see 3 coming, I'd retreat back into the capital. So I'd definitely try to mine that gold.
After the first defeat, I am sure I learnt the important of archers. However I would still strongly recommend the next player continue with the worker. Why? Simple. We are at pop 5, happy limit. We want to whip. Its better to whip worker when you are expansive. I would of-course rather the whip overflow goes to Great Wall, but if next player feel insecure, go ahead and let the overflow goes to an archer.
@Team: (lurker's comment) My OCC experience is middling, but I'd call your start rather poor. Of course the floodplains are always great, as is early gold, but you have a lot of water tiles. In a OCC game, you'll be working every tile. SO IMHO you're going to loose way more long-term commerce from 2-commerce water tiles than you'll gain from having 6 free hammers (assuming the water would be replaced with grassland). Of course you have great food, but you already had corn and floodplains, so you weren't really food-poor.
Sunrise, I have always believe cottages has no place in an OCC, so I disagree with "long term commerce" loss you pointed out. But I do agree that land tiles are better than sea tile in an OCC (cottages or not). But let see how things play out (part of the reason why I choose this start -- out of 6 starts I rolled, two are coastal -- is I want to experiment the effect of Moai Statues on OCC with BtS). In the short term (before Globe), it doesn't matter, cause we would be capped at size 8, while there are still 14 land tiles. I have played a few archipelago OCC as well, and one main benefit of coastal is the ability to build harbour, doubling the health and trade. So coastal isn't as bad as it seems, especially if you have seafood.
Checking in. We sure are in for a rough ride...but hey, we wanted to have it that way. That said I can play on Wednesday at the earliest, so if anyone can grab it before that day feel free to do so...
ok. That was quick. No, we didn't get wiped out But it was a very intense 19 turns.
First, my joke:
Spoiler:
It's amazing how the jokes in this comic haven't changed in over 20 years! Yes, this is a Garfield strip. It's a terrible comic that won't stop...
I started my set by whipping out a worker for 2 pop. Then, I sent him + the drill archer to the gold hill and started mining. I then hit enter while I switched the build to the GW. A ton of barbs tried to kill our worker and failed, as our archer hit 10 XP (I didn't use the last promotion since I was saving it for healing).
I also changed the research to agriculture instead of IW, so that our worker will have something to do once he finishes mining the gold.
Then I got some bad luck, as our researchers suffered a one turn setback on IW research.
This is followed on the very next turn by some good luck:
We also completed the GW just as 3 barb archers entered our territory. They are immediately expelled. Izzy has settled her second city quite close to us.
I played on until we discovered IW to see if we have any in our borders. As luck would have it, it popped on the riverside hill that I had mined while building the GW! So now iron is hooked up. We should MM the workboat to come out in 2 turns before we switch to other builds... I think pottery should be next (ignore the AH that I set research on) so that we can get a granary up. We have a lot of food and it'll speed up our growth a lot. We can also send a worker down to quarry the stone now as well, since it's inside our borders.
maybe that wall will direct barb traffic to that too-close-for-comfort Spanish city and they'll promptly raze it to the ground. Poor Izzy ~ i'll be crying in my milk tomorrow morning
that cover promo will definitely help out ~ if we plan to do any warring, though I'm not sure we do.
Yeah, not much help to Immy if you play so fast Executive decision -- Feedback is UP, Imhotep on deck ... (I always like fast-pacing SG)
All thanks to Shyuhe, no more exciting turns for the next players. It will be back to a normal just-press-enter-15-times OCC routine.
We should probably get the stones hooked up and go for the Pyramids next. I would forgo Animal Husbandry -- we do not have animals nearby and have no need for horses now that iron is so near -- and instead go for Writing or Metal Casting. Writing is to enable library and open borders to encourage religion spread. MC is to enable forge (for one more happy thanks to gold).
With us being food rich this early, I am willing to entertain the notion of adding a cottage to one of the floodplains (with the understanding that it WILL be replaced by farm some time in the future ).
Lurker....I really enjoy OCC and play quite a bit. That is one of the best starts Ive seen playing a OCC. A big reason for that is all the health that is around your city. Even if you cant work it..you have fish, rice, wheat, and sheep. You also have the 3 resources that a granary doubles. An absolutely crazy good start as health is a major concern.
As far as the 5 Natl Wonders....there is no contest as far as im concerned.
Natl Epic
Globe
Oxford
Ironworks
Wall Street
I think you can all agree on the first 4....Wall Street is debateable. Moai just doesnt cut it for the little it adds. Natl Park isnt worth it. Reason being is by the time youll want it, youll be close to Environmentalism (is that spelled right) and Hospitals. If you didnt have all those health resources around the capitol....it might be worth it.
Wall Street will double all those settled prophets, merchants, and artist youll get.
And why do you need that extra money you ask?......for an army....and why do you need an army when youre gonna be sucking up to everyone up to midgame?.....cuz youre gonna need to go to war to slow those Immortal AI down. You are gonna have a tech lead...provided you beeline to Education as Oxford is the single most powerful building in a OCC. Once you get that tech lead, youre gonna need to trim the AI back....alot. If you dont, then when you are researching Physics...they are gonna pass you and never look back. Take advantage of your midgame techlead and stay at war with someone for the rest of the game.
Youll be building alot of wonders early. You may even be building a wonder after you research math.....immediatly switch to an aquaduct and get the Hanging Gardens....that is one wonder you cant afford to miss.
Pyramids are a shoe in with stone and industrious, but i wouldnt count on getting the Oracle...that sucker gets built tootsweet. You might can iterrupt the mids to try and get it.....but, you better be heading for priesthood now.
One more thing. I never build cottages on a OCC, but in your case...you have way too much food that even caste system cant sort out. I would cottage those floodplains and gain the extra research power. Youll still have a ton of extra food.
Lurker....I really enjoy OCC and play quite a bit. That is one of the best starts Ive seen playing a OCC. A big reason for that is all the health that is around your city. Even if you cant work it..you have fish, rice, wheat, and sheep. You also have the 3 resources that a granary doubles. An absolutely crazy good start as health is a major concern.
I think you can all agree on the first 4....Wall Street is debateable. Moai just doesnt cut it for the little it adds. Natl Park isnt worth it. Reason being is by the time youll want it, youll be close to Environmentalism (is that spelled right) and Hospitals. If you didnt have all those health resources around the capitol....it might be worth it.
Wall Street will double all those settled prophets, merchants, and artist youll get.
I am not so sure Wall Street is better than Moai Statues, esp if we don't have a shrine. One would generally be able to sustain 100% science at +ve cashflow in most OCC games.
And why do you need that extra money you ask?......for an army....and why do you need an army when youre gonna be sucking up to everyone up to midgame?.....cuz youre gonna need to go to war to slow those Immortal AI down.
Not so sure abt warring. We can't possibly take on everyone, so chances are we would take on only one AI. that still leaves the remaining 5 or so free to tech, unless we take on the leading AI. At immortal, they are likely to tech at the same pace, Oxford or not. I believe having AI killing each other will serve us much better after the experience in Fox07. We could of-course join in some war, but I doubt we would go out of the way to send super SoD out.
Youll be building alot of wonders early. You may even be building a wonder after you research math.....immediatly switch to an aquaduct and get the Hanging Gardens....that is one wonder you cant afford to miss.
Hanging Gardens I am not so sure, I definitely wouldn't classify it as a "must-have" in OCC. Usually, by the time maths is in, the city will be near or at happy cap (but then I almost always roll a few starts and choose the best one -- that implies food-rich -- for OCC ). So, the benefits of HG for free pop is not very handy, esp since it does not add +1 happy.
Pyramids are a shoe in with stone and industrious, but i wouldnt count on getting the Oracle...that sucker gets built tootsweet. You might can iterrupt the mids to try and get it.....but, you better be heading for priesthood now.
I usually forgo Oracle as well, rather go for the Parthenon. But i maintain Pyramids is the single most important Wonder in OCC ... nobody has yet been able to convince me otherwise (well, in this game, Great Wall came close ...).
One more thing. I never build cottages on a OCC, but in your case...you have way too much food that even caste system cant sort out. I would cottage those floodplains and gain the extra research power. Youll still have a ton of extra food.
Hanging Gardens I am not so sure, I definitely wouldn't classify it as a "must-have" in OCC. Usually, by the time maths is in, the city will be near or at happy cap (but then I almost always roll a few starts and choose the best one -- that implies food-rich -- for OCC ). So, the benefits of HG for free pop is not very handy, esp since it does not add +1 happy.
@Team: (lurker's comment) My OCC experience is middling, but I'd call your start rather poor. Of course the floodplains are always great, as is early gold, but you have a lot of water tiles. In a OCC game, you'll be working every tile. SO IMHO you're going to loose way more long-term commerce from 2-commerce water tiles than you'll gain from having 6 free hammers (assuming the water would be replaced with grassland). Of course you have great food, but you already had corn and floodplains, so you weren't really food-poor.
I have to agree with Sunrise, I would have moved the cap one tile east, trading the clams and crabs for the irrigated wheat and picking up a bunch of land tiles. But with the Iron, it worked out alright. There is enuff food there for like 3 cities. With as much food as you have I would consider cottages (at least on the floodplains) even though the general strat is scientist specialists and then settled scientist specialist.
Why would ever build Wall Street in an OCC? All the Specialists will give you more gold than you will ever want anyway...
Okay, as pointed out earlier, shyuhe really took all the fun from the set. I just hit enter for a bunch of times. Highlight of the set:
Well, let's see: switch research from AH to Pottery. Pottery in, started Writing. Writing in, started MC. It's gonna take a like (29 turns initially, 27 now), but with a library it should speed up.
After the workboat, I started on the 'mids, MMing for growth. When the city hit size 4, I did a granary (not worth whipping for 1 pop, took 4 turns only) and resumed the 'mids. Stone is hooked up, so the ETA is 20 turns, with the current citizen set. The city will grow next turn.
You know, with 2 archers and a warrior, our power rating is better than a bunch of AIs already. If it was a normal game, I'd be advocating some wars... But it's not, so better this way.
Let's include the BUG autolog here:
Spoiler:
Logging by BUG Mod 2.0 (BtS 3.13)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 49/500 (2040 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:07:56]
Reminder: On Turn 64, Stop playing Research begun: Pottery (5 Turns)
IBT:
Turn 50/500 (2000 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:10:01] A Farm was built near Berlin
IBT:
Turn 51/500 (1960 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:10:09] Berlin finishes: Work Boat
IBT:
Turn 52/500 (1920 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:10:35] Berlin begins: The Pyramids (84 turns) A Fishing Boats was built near Berlin
IBT: Civics Change: Darius I(Persia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'
Turn 56/500 (1760 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:12:45]
IBT:
Turn 57/500 (1720 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:12:51]
IBT: Contact made: Sumerian Empire
Turn 58/500 (1680 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:12:56]
IBT:
Turn 59/500 (1640 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:13:19] Berlin grows: 4
IBT: Attitude Change: Charlemagne(Holy Rome) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) towards Darius I(Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Charlemagne(Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Darius I(Persia) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Charlemagne(Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Gilgamesh(Sumeria), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
IBT: Attitude Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Turn 63/500 (1480 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:15:08] Research begun: Metal Casting (29 Turns) Berlin finishes: Granary
IBT: Attitude Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 64/500 (1440 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:16:42]
Reminder: Stop playing
IBT:
Turn 65/500 (1400 BC) [16-Oct-2007 21:19:16]
I think I played one turn more, but it wasn't an even number and it was the first time I was using the reminders...
But the worker is unmoved and the city is just waiting for growth next turn.
I you or not 'ing the Granary. We should always do the hammer overflow to a wonder, esp when we have the production bonus.
I don't know abt others, but every time I see Gilgamesh of Sumeria, I always think of the Chinese legendary figure Monkey God
I think we are happy limit at size 6 ... so next player may consider an additional worker whip to overflow hammers in Pyramids.
@Atlas: hmm... I have never thought to move 1 east ... it may turn out to be better trading 2 seafood for more land tiles + wheat.
Roster
-- GreyFox == Dirty, Rotten, Game-Reloader
-- Shyuhe == The Feline that Ended the Fun for All
-- Feedback == Waiting for the next Buzz ride >> Imhotep == UP to complete the Pyramids
-- r_rolo1 == On Deckroad looking for a crossing chick
-- Pholkhero == Waiting patiently to unleash his sh!tloads of bad jokes
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!
maybe that wall will direct barb traffic to that too-close-for-comfort Spanish city and they'll promptly raze it to the ground. Poor Izzy ~ i'll be crying in my milk tomorrow morning 
).
). So, the benefits of HG for free pop is not very handy, esp since it does not add +1 happy.
