FTS-02 The Immortal One

Conroe · Jul 30, 2006

mike p said:
I suggest trying to trade sugar for another health resource.

At the start, there were no health resources to trade. But, Alex ended up canceling our free rice deal, so I traded him the sugar for his rice.

Evidently, Roosevelt had already researched Philosophy. I went ahead and completed the Philosophy course, even though we would not be the founder of Taoism. I revolted to Hinduism and Pacificsm. Our army is costing us 6gpt because of the extra cost.

We completed the Colossus and an Aquaduct. We are currently researching Paper (due in 2 turns). We need to head for Education next, but we might want to take a 3 turn detour for Compass. The two tech leaders, Saladin and Roosevelt, don't seem to want to trade it, and it is required for Astronomy. Plus, a Harbor would be nice, not only for health, but for the extra trade route income.

Our next great person will be in 3 turns (2 if we hire another specialist for a turn). We have a 50% chance for a Great Scientist. The lightbulb on a GS should be Education (once we have learned Paper). Not sure how many beakers the GS would give us, but we may want to consider that option.

Spoiler all the gory details :

A couple of snapshots from the family album. The first is our little corner of the world.

As Roosevelts borders push ours back, our little corner is getting smaller and smaller. :sad:

Conroe · Jul 30, 2006

Roster Check:
Conroe - Just Played
Methos - UP
mike p - On Deck
sooooo
adamlan - Skipped

Methos · Jul 30, 2006

Got it. I'm up in my SGOTM1 game so I'll play this probably tomorrow or Tuesday.

sooooo · Jul 31, 2006

Cool, we're going well. I'm glad we're in pacifism. IMHO, I think we should merge the scientist unless there's a chance we'll miss liberalism.

Methos · Aug 1, 2006

I drop one scientist temporarily to shave three turns off of growth. Well still get our great leader in the same amount of time. I also switch our build to a market for two reasons; one, we have plenty of military units, and their costing us gold-wise. Two, is we could benefit from the two merchant specialist it allows. I considered waiting on the market and putting research in the queue instead.

Roosevelt came calling wanting us to cancel agreements with Alex. I said no.

I merged the great scientist as IMO not merging our great leaders will seriously handicap our game. The best strategy I have found for OCC games is to merge all great leaders, rather than use them any other way. Granted, that doesnt mean I follow that rule entirely. Shrug.

Desiring a look at our world map I do a little trading.
Roosevelts world map for 200 gold.
Hatty gives us her world map and 70 gold for ours.
Alex gives us 50 gold for our map.
Give Philo to Hatty for Theology, WM, and 30 gold.
Napoleon gives Compass, Construction, and 110 gold for Philo.
Saladin gives WM and 110 gold for Philo.

Research-wise went Paper>Compass>Education (4 turns left)

Sorry, but I kept horrible notes. I built a harbor for the additional health. Berlin is also now up to size 16. When Education is done we should switch off research and start work on a university and Oxford.

Astronomy needs Optics, so we should consider that if Astronomy is the tech we desire from Liberalism. IMO we should also consider Printing Press as the free tech.

Again, my apologies on my notes. I normally take much better notes than this.

Roster:
Conroe
Methos- Just Played
mike p- Up
sooooo- On Deck
adamlan- Skipped

Conroe · Aug 1, 2006

Looking good, Methos!

Methos said:
Astronomy needs Optics, so we should consider that if Astronomy is the tech we desire from Liberalism. IMO we should also consider Printing Press as the free tech.

I think we would see a much greater benefit from an Observatory rather than the extra commerce from Printing Press. Is Optics available via trade? Also, how close are Saladin or FDR to being able to research Liberalism?

mike p · Aug 1, 2006

800 BC When you set a city to build research, it's generally much more efficient to hire specialists than work mines. So I hired another scientist and a couple of merchants.

It never occurred to me until I noticed it here that the Bureaucracy bonus applies to commerce from tiles and trade routes, not gold or beakers created by specialists. Therefore, if you're running Bureaucracy without Representation, specialists are probably a waste of time.

I also saw that I could switch to a catapult for one turn and have it complete without pushing back research time, so I did. When in doubt for this game, building another unit is never a bad idea.

Our worker didn't have much to do so I had him farm the floodplains to the east. We can't work them, but the AI will probably stop to pillage the improvements and that could buy us crucial time.

840 BC Great Scientist is born and merged.

860 BC Saladin Founds Islam. At the time, he is the only other Civ with Paper, but by the end, there are several civs willing to trade for education, so he was probably spreading it around. Since he was researching Divine Right, we're definitely first to Education.

880 BC Switch back to production mode and start University.

920 BC Napoleon converts to Hinduism. Alex is the only Confucian and I start to think maybe we should turn on him.

940 BC Hatty demands that we break our deals with Alex. I review the trade screen and know that it will cost us 2 health, but I concede to her demand. We still have sugars free (+1 health w/Grocer soon enough)

Meanwhile, I notice that our trade to Washington of Gems for Silk is still active, so I renegotiate for 4 gpt and drop the silk.

980 BC University Done. Oxford in 7

1000 BC Liberalism in 1. I unclicked the tech research bar so is sooooo wants to try to knock off some prereqs for a better free tech you can. Personally, I'd think about grabbing Nationalism for its trade value - perhaps bribe the AI to fight each other. Saladin is friendly with us now, so we get no "Too Advanced" messages with any of his techs, but he is the leader, so maybe we should try to bring him down some. Gimping Alex might not be a bad idea, but there are still other people he hates more than us.

sooooo · Aug 1, 2006

Errr, quite an eventful turnset. I followed Mike's advice and made a rather large gamble which I hope you will be OK with Conroe.

IHT: MM oxford down to 5 turns. Set research to liberalism.

T1: Liberalism comes in, take Nationalism. Declare war on Alex :eek:

.

Then do this:

Then wait a turn for Optics to become tradable. Research into Guilds.

T2: More messing around:

Diplomatic situation is complicated. We get a -1 from Hatty for bribing a war against her, but receive a +1 from herself (and Saladin and FDR) for the mutual military struggle bonus, and that will increase. Alex however is less pleased.

T3: Get a great scientist in Berlin and merge him.

T5: Oxford completes, start a catapult.

T6: Guilds completes, start banking (not for a completely useless bank, but to chase the great merchant from economics). Catapult completes, start a grocer (for the health). Saladin circumnavigates.

T7: Trade for engineering.

T8: Napoleon wants help with his egyptian war. Say no. We find out why on the same turn: Hatty captures Lyons. This is actually really bad for us because Lyons had the fish, so our fish for corn deal with Napoleon is cancelled and we lose 2 health. We sell the corn to Hatty for 7 GPT, hoping to change it for fish when Lyons comes out of revolt.

T9: Banking -> Economics. Isabella demands Drama from us and I feel sorry for her so I agree. Grocer completes (+1 health from sugar), start a maceman.

T10: Not a lot happens. Economics is due in 3, though FDR now has education and may be chasing it too. Maybe I should have gone for PP, but I like merchants because they provide +1 food.

I didn't start the Taj because with 1 city a golden age is less hot. Plus I gave everyone Nationalism, so if someone has marble, is industrious or has a GE and wants it then we'd get beaten. It would have taken (and still does take) 11 turns after oxford finished at max production, so 16 turns after I gave away Nationalism. I'm pretty sure we won't get attacked by Alex, since he is at war with everyone in between us and him :lol:

. Saladin is up Divine Right and Gunpowder on us. He was willing to trade GP for Edu all the way through my turnset, but I didn't want him any further ahead.

Methos · Aug 1, 2006

Roster:
Conroe- Up
Methos- On Deck
mike p
sooooo- Just Played
adamlan- MIA

I'm guessing since we haven't heard from adamlan that we're skipping him? Up to you Conroe.

Interesting diplomatic manuevering!

mike p · Aug 1, 2006

That's a great screen shot on the diplomacy screen. I just hope Saladin takes the war seriously and it slows him down some. Eventually we might need someone to eclipse him so we can sign a PA, when the time is right.

Printing Press isn't going to as much good as the bonus trade route from Economics. Merging the Great Merchant will just be gravy.

Conroe · Aug 2, 2006

Wow!

A lot has happened in the last couple of hours!

Methos said:
I'm guessing since we haven't heard from adamlan that we're skipping him? Up to you Conroe.

Let's wait and give adamlan the standard 24 hours to post a got. If we haven't heard anything by then, then I will go ahead and take it.

Besides, I think I'm going to need the 24 hours just to figure out what happened! :lol:

I'm not sure that I totally understand the turn of events here. I just need to think about it for a while before I start playing.

It makes sense cutting Alex loose once Napoleon went back to Hinduism. Alex founded Confucianism, so he would probably stick with that no matter what. It's doubtful that Alex would be able to get to us, with Sal and FDR as a buffer zone. And, of course, having the AI fight amongst themselves is usually a good thing, assuming it is not a phoney war.

@adamlan: You're up if you want it!

Conroe · Aug 3, 2006

It looks like adamlan is still a no-show. I really hate the idea of booting somebody from the roster. Adamlan could be laid up in a hospital for all we know. But, it really isn't fair to the rest of the team. We should probably bring in a lurker as an alternate. I know Strauss indicated interest in this game before going out of town.

In the meantime, I will go ahead and play. Methos is on deck.

Conroe · Aug 3, 2006

One city on Immortal difficulty -- and look who the tech leader is

Wow! Soooo really did a great job trading Nationalism around. :goodjob:

Also, the arid climate and high sea level of the map is probably lending us a hand in keeping pace with the AI. Wish I could take credit for that, but I set them to random when I generated the map.

We probably need to start discussing our victory condition. When we started this game, I really didn't think we would be in this position, but apparently all of our options are still open. We could take a peaceful route and go after Computers and Fiber Optics to build a spaceship. Or, we could go after a PA with Saladin and go for a domination victory. Alex has the most land, currently, but he is not an option anymore. :lol:

FDR would also be a good choice, but I think Saladin is slightly bigger.

Whatever direction we go, though, I think the next 10 turns are played the same. We have 3 turns to finish Economics, after that I will head us towards Astronomy to pick up an Observatory. Here are all the gory details:

Spoiler Turn Log :

Ok, 10 turns played. We have 1 turn remaining on Astronomy and 1 turn remaining on our first musket. I pre-chopped the NW forest (we have 3 and only 2 are giving us health) to help the Observatory along.

Two Macemen and a Spearman have just crossed the border into Egypt from America. They are heading towards the front lines to see if we can get a unit promoted to level 4 for the Heroic Epic.

All of our options on victory condition are still open. But, we probably need to decide soonish. If we decide we want a PA, Saladin has Military Tradition available for trade. Although, if this war goes on long enough, we would not need a DP in order to sign a PA. Whether we go the PA route or the Internet route, we probably ought to think about Scientific Method next. Of course, this would obsolete the Great Library.

Below is an updated trade screen. FDR has passed us as tech leader, with us and Saladin nipping at his heals. Saladin is definitely taking this war seriously, but Roosevelt seems to be making only a token appearance. Most of Roosevelt's troops look to be horded up in his cities. My guess is he is fighting cultural pressure to prevent his cities from flipping.

And lastly, a couple of screenshots for the lurkers. One of the world map and another of our fair city ...

Conroe · Aug 3, 2006

Roster Check:
Conroe - Just Played
Methos - UP
mike p - On Deck
sooooo
adamlan - MIA

In case we don't hear from adamlan, are there any lurkers interested in an alternate slot?

sooooo · Aug 3, 2006

Scientific Method will obsolete our great library and monastery, but if we get to physics first one of those scientists will be replaced. But I don't think Saladin or FDR will be researching Sci Meth yet - he will probably be going for printing press, rep parts and rifling. Come to think of it, we need PP for Sci Meth, right? Maybe we can research Corporation next (+1 trade route) and trade it for PP and chemistry. Someone is bound to get PP soon as most AIs beeline to rifles. Saladin has unusually got chemistry before rifles, but this is probably thanks to a GP. FDR prob got chemistry in a trade. When astro comes in we will obviously build an observatory. The question is: will be trade away astro yet. I'm favouring not doing so. We can only get a fair deal for MT, and MT is fairly useless except for the defensive pact. Lets wait for a better trade and preserve our monopoly. Longer term biology and medicine (environmentalism) are needed to support many more specialists.

Conroe · Aug 3, 2006

sooooo said:
Come to think of it, we need PP for Sci Meth, right? Maybe we can research Corporation next (+1 trade route)

Good point. I forgot that SciMeth requires Printing Press. But, Corporation requires Constitution. And if we are going to research Constitution, we may want to go ahead and research Democracy for the Statue of Liberty. Corporation, after all, isn't going anywhere. I'm not sure, though, if that detour is really worth it for 1 specialist.

sooooo said:
We sell the corn to Hatty for 7 GPT, hoping to change it for fish when Lyons comes out of revolt.

Oh, I forgot to mention this in my report. Lyons needs a border expansion before it picks up the fish. So, this deal will still need to be renegotiated next set.

Methos · Aug 3, 2006

Got it....

Methos · Aug 5, 2006

Turn 180 (1200 AD)
Methos: Everything looks good.
Tech learned: Astronomy
Berlin finishes: Musketman

IBT:

Turn 181 (1210 AD)
Research begun: Printing Press
Methos: I got the impression from Conroe's post that the preferred route was SciMeth, so I went with PP.
Research begun: Scientific Method
Berlin begins: Observatory
Methos: The observatory will be complete in four turns. By the time our worker gets there it'll have three turns left, so I'm considering leaving the pre-chop for something else.

IBT:

Turn 182 (1220 AD)
Methos: Decided to go with the chop afterall. It brings it down to one turn until completion.
Berlin finishes: Observatory

IBT:

Turn 183 (1230 AD)
Berlin begins: Musketman
Methos: I consider building the Hermitage for the additional culture, but decide against it. I'll discuss later my reasons for why I contemplated this.
Methos: The worker starts building a cottage on the now chopped grass tile. Might as well do something with it.
Berlin's borders expand
Methos: Not for sure if it was worth it, but figured Hatty would get it anyway, so I made this trade:

View attachment 134822

Tech learned: Divine Right

IBT:

Turn 184 (1240 AD)
Methos: Our troops get close enough to see Saladin's forces (2 camel archers, 2 cats, and a crossbowman) sitting outside Sparta. They must have just arrived as they are unhurt.
Tech learned: Printing Press
Berlin finishes: Musketman

IBT:

Turn 185 (1250 AD)
Berlin begins: Galleon
Methos: I decide to go with a galleon to knock back some of the fog. There's still way too much unknown out there IMO.
Methos: Notice that Lyons has had its border expand, but we can't trade for the fish. Looking around I notice this is Hatty's only fish resource. Am I missing something?

IBT:

Turn 186 (1260 AD)
Methos: Roosevelt has made peace with Alex.
Methos: Not for sure why, but Saladin's troops have moved around Sparta. They're still adjacent, just now in the southern tile. I hope he isn't leaving.
Berlin grows: 18
Berlin finishes: Galleon

IBT:
While defending, Maceman defeats (2.40/8): Greek Catapult at 99.1 percent.

Turn 187 (1270 AD)
Berlin begins: Hindu Missionary
Methos: Before SciMeth comes in I decide to build a few Hindu missionaries. I'm thinking we can use them as spies. Drop them into a few cities we prefer to watch for LoS.
Methos: The SS Conroe heads west to explore. I'm curious, has anyone noticed whether one of the AI's has circumnavigated the globe yet?
Spearman promoted: Combat I
Maceman promoted: City Raider I
Methos: Well that sucked. Sparta attacked our stack with a cat. Though we whipped it, our stack took some collateral. The unit we want to get to level 4 took a lot of damage. Moved our troops onto Saladin's tile for protection. Hope he sticks around.
Berlin finishes: Hindu Missionary
Alhazen (Scientist) (Great Scientist) born in Berlin

IBT:

Turn 188 (1280 AD)
Berlin begins: Hindu Missionary
Methos: Since we're overproducing hammers for our missionaries, I do a little MM'ing. I lessen our hammer production and hire another merchant.
Methos:
Methos: Saladin took off, so I decide to move our troops to Nap's lands to heal. It's two tiles away from Sparta, and IMHO we shouldn't be attacking a city with these troops anyway.
Berlin finishes: Hindu Missionary

IBT:

Turn 189 (1290 AD)
Berlin begins: Hindu Missionary
Methos: Since Berlin is now building the last Hindu missionary I MM so that we get more excess hammers. In other words, I drop the 2nd merchant and adjust some tiles.
Berlin finishes: Hindu Missionary

IBT:

Turn 190 (1300 AD)
Berlin begins: Musketman
Methos: Napoleon comes calling with this:

View attachment 134823

Methos: Since our relations our better with Hatty than Napoleon (plus we have resources with her), I decline as request.

Notes:

Scientific Method will be complete in one turn, so if we wish to change it now would be the perfect time.
Next I’m thinking we should research Replaceable Parts for the lumber mills. It’d be nice to be able to use those two forested tiles more.
I’m not sure if anyone has circumnavigated the globe yet, so I have started the SS Conroe to do just that. The SS Conroe needs to continue west towards Berlin.

Roster:
Conroe
Methos- Just Played
Mike p- Up
Soooo- On Deck
adamlan- MIA

sooooo · Aug 5, 2006

Methos said:
Im not sure if anyone has circumnavigated the globe yet, so I have started the SS Conroe to do just that.

Nice thinking, but Saladin circumnavigated in my turns. I think I reported it, but maybe not. We do need some navy though. Shame frigates require iron.

adamlan · Aug 5, 2006

soz i been on my hols i didnt hav time 2 post dat i woz goin away im so sorry im leavin on tuesday again so u might want me to play a turnset wenever itz my go

FTS-02 The Immortal One

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HoF Quattromaster

Emperor

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King

Emperor

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King

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Emperor

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HoF Quattromaster

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Chieftain

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