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Marsden

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Hello and welcome to the latest Gauntlet for the Civ III HOF. This month, we go back to a more traditional contest, and everyone that complained about Decembers Gauntlet was too easy, here is a harder one for you.


  • Mapsize: Large
  • Difficulty: Diety (Conquests)
  • Condition: Diplomatic


All submissions must be in by 02/15/08.
 

AutomatedTeller

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Complained? I thought it was awesome - fast games aren't bad ;)

This will be interesting. Last time we did something like this, it was demigod. I happen to think that conquests deity is significantly harder than demigod - the AI just seems a lot better.

My first gauntlet was a deity fast-research game (small deity SS) - was much fun.
 

Tone

Deity
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I've just submitted a game. I was elected in 950AD.

I wanted to play a game with a civ that started with Alphabet. For a change I chose Korea. All other scientifics except for Greece and Byzantine were in, along with China and America on a 60% water pangea map.

It started pretty quietly. I researched at full pelt on writing. I think it still took me about 45 turns but those fivr turns saved meant that I got the republic slingshot. I traded with my neighbours to try and keep them happy and submitted to a demand or two. By the time I had researched Currency to get into the Middle Ages, I had a full set of contacts. Only one civ got Feudalism and it cost an arm and a leg to get...

Spoiler :

There is also Republic and Monarchy on that trade table. Bismark knew the value of his tech.
Imagine my disappointment when I got Chivalry as my freebie. :mad:

Although the large map adds a bit to the research costs, at least the AI can contribute at this level. I played a peaceful game, hoping that well timed trades and research choices would make up for a smallish empire. However my neigbours were not going to be quite so peaceful. Maybe my position in holding the landbridge between the two halves of the landmass was a contributing factor.

First up were the Sumerians. I had a good relationship with them so I could not issue a 'leave or declare' to them. I just had to wait for them to attack.
Spoiler :


My meagre forces went to defend the bridge and I allied the world against them. The Ottomans were quite happy to accept the alliance but it was clear that their heart was not really in it. They chose to backstab me again, and for the second time I had to wait for them to attack first.

If my luck was not in by getting attacked from either side at the same time, things did go my way when defending against the Ottomans...

Spoiler :

The trouble was that I was getting close to entering the next age and I was now at war with two of the scientific civs. Not good for getting a second tier tech.

I entered the new age with alliances still in place. My friends only got Steam and Nationalism. I then got Ironclads so both of my freebies had been optionals; FAN-TAST-IC! :cry: I avoided research of medicine just in case my enemies got it when we reached peace but no such luck. This was really not helping me research asap.

The next civ to declare on me was Persia. They landed a small force in my core but at least for once I could issue them a 'leave or declare'. They were giving me over 200gpt at the time which explains the declaration.

Spoiler :

By now I had taken a source of saltpetre from the Ottomans and so I had some Hwach'a to kick off my Golden Age. A bit later on my good friends the Americans, with whom I had been trading for centuries, declared on me as well.

I was aware that my empire was too small fo a 1000 shield palace prebuild and I wasn't keen on upsetting too many civs by taking more territory, especially as I wasn't sure who my rival would be at this stage. I was happy to see an SGL turn up for Scientific Method giving me an easy way of getting the UN built.

There was still time for the Chinese to join the list of civs to attack me. With 15% of the population, they were going to be my rivals for the vote though so it was quite nice. It was simply a case of signing alliances and heading for Mass Production and Mororised Transport whilst waiting for the AI to get Flight. Trouble was that all these wars were restricting their ability to research and so in the end I had to get Flight as well. If they had done so, I could have gained the number 1 slot for this catagory. Alternatively a bit more luck with my freebies would have been enough. Still, it gives a marker for the rest of you guys to aim for.
 

Tone

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I guess that I've been haunted by 'what might have been' with the last game. Despite the fact that I really shouldn't be playing civ tonight, I started another game as the Greeks. I thought that playing with Greece would give me better relations with my chosen rivals and also the Hoplite is a much better UU IMO.

I took the first decent looking start from my mapfinder saves. A cow and a game tile turned into two of each as the borders expanded. However, I was surrounded by jungle, desert and sea plus rivals close by in every direction. Not really ideal for fast expansion but I do have a couple of reasons for carrying on with this game...

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Aristotle gave me Pyramids. I'm still contemplating what to do with Plato. The real question is do I carry on with this as a gauntlet attempt or try for a 20K win?
 

Chamnix

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Nice :)!!

I don't think I would switch to 20K - 2 early wonders is nice, but it doesn't look like that productive a spot long-term. I can't tell how many BGs you have, but 1 mountain and no hills doesn't look great for future production. I'm sure you wouldn't have a temple yet, and it doesn't look like you have enough workers to be able to merge them soon, so you probably will have a hard time getting any other Ancient Age wonders, and at that point I don't think it is an extraordinary 20K game entering the Middle Ages.
 

AutomatedTeller

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hmm.

What to do with a 2nd AA SGL? I think you have a few options:

1) Rush collosus now (if it's still around)
2) Rush SoZ if you find ivory
3) Wait for HG
4) Wait for Bachs (or Sistine - whichever it is that gives you +1 happiness)
5) Use it for FP
6) Just hold it for a long time
7) Use it for SunTzu or Leo's

Those are really the only things that I can see doing - no other wonder is all that useful, unless you are playing on an arch map.

I think I'd wait for HG.

I agree that going for 20K is a poor idea, cause your shields aren't so great -
 

Tone

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You're both right. 20K is not a good idea.

I've put this game on hold. I get an SGL and get Pyramids but then no room to expand. Then the Americans declare on me, quickly followed by the Germans. I don't fancy my chances with it and as playing time is limited I might see if there is a game with a bit more space for me to expand into. Oh well.
 

Marsden

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Tone, if I may make a humble suggestion, a 100k would be a choice well served by 2 sgls. How far have you researched and what wonders have already gone? The jungle is terrible, but 100s of jungle towns can still produce culture, and cheap libraries, too.
 

Chamnix

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Tone - what have you been doing for Pottery? The biggest problem I seem to be having so far is that it takes too long to get contacts for Pottery.
 

Tone

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Tone - what have you been doing for Pottery? The biggest problem I seem to be having so far is that it takes too long to get contacts for Pottery.
I've had Russia and America spreading the tech in the two games that I've tried out. It's been delayed a bit but I've got isolated contacts in both cases so I gues that I've just been fortunate. Also in that second game I didn't need it anyway with that SGL luck, but in both cases I've selected a central start so contacts have not been too much of an issue.

No words of wisdom from me here; sorry! Have you got a second expansionist civ or have you got other priorities?

@marsden: I think that this game is going into the bin. There is no space to settle; even the jungle is taken and the world is starting to gang up on me. I can fight them off but it's hurting my research capabilities. I'll decide at the weekend when hopefully my 14 hour plus working days will be over for a while.:cry:
 

Chamnix

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So far I have not had a second expansionist civ, but an additional one (or more) is certainly worth trying. Back to the MapFinder...

I did have one start so far where I got a Writing SGL also - of course, by that time I had a few granaries built or nearly built, and the map was really not that good other than the SGL. I had 2 luxuries available to settle, but it would have taken a very long road to connect them, and I didn't get to Philosophy first, so I abandoned that one.
 

Tone

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Now if only someone can marry a great starting position with an early SGL, we'll have a great game to view. It's not too late yet...
 
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Well, I didn't have a very great start or any SGL's, but I submitted a 1030AD game using Russia. This was only my third C3C deity victory (all in gauntlets) so I'll take it. I lost my CivIII Complete cd and since I installed Infogrames/Atari version of C3C, I've not been able to get MapFinder to run properly. I removed it and downloaded it again, making sure the file-path was correct, but it still doesn't work.

My settings were 60%pangea, normal, temperate, 5byo, sedentary barbs, least aggressive. I only played against 6 rivals--Babylon, Persia, Ottomans, Germans, Egyptians and Chinese. I didn't want any civ to have alphabet and I also didn't want an agri civ like Sumeria as the last large deity gauntlet showed me how powerful they can be. I hoped this would allow me to grab more territory and huts while also allowing for bigger civs to help with research more. For the most part, this plan worked very well.

I started by building 6 scouts and a granary before settlers hoping to get writing before starting any research. This along with trades of many techs from ai worked well and I was reasearching philosophy by 2310BC. I popped one settler somewhat far from my capital which eventually netted me four sources of ivory. By the end of the expansion phase, I had multiple sources of four luxuries, iron and horses in my territory. I got the Republic slingshot in 1600BC and was a Republic by 1500BC. The only other tech I researched was currency which completed in 975BC. All other techs were popped or traded.

Upon entering the MA I got all the first-tier techs plus theology as my freebie. Quite good luck since there were only 4 science civs in this game. My civ was rather small at this time with only 12 towns, so education took a long time to research. I did have quite a bit of room to expand and ended with 36 towns in the initial expansion phase. Even with libraries and universities in all these towns (afforded by quite generous ai gpt payments) research was slow and I would never get 4-turn research this game. I got monopolies on education, astronomy and physics and came up one turn short on both theory of gravity. The ai provided by favorable trades invention, gunpowder, chemistry, metallurgy, banking and all the optional techs as well as a full set of 8 luxuries. Unfortunately, I was beaten to Cope's and only barely managed to get Newton's University. Since I also didn't have saltpeter in my territory, I was worried I might not have a GA. It took a long time for saltpeter to show up for trade. I traded for the last turn of magnetism in 380AD as 3 ai's had just made the IA.

Like Tone, my game would have been much better if I had better luck on the age change. None of the ai's got steam power and my freebie was sanitation. Ouch. Since it took me 15-turns to research steam and industrialization this game could have just beaten the #1 game on this table. About 3-turns into the IA, having just gotten saltpeter and produced about three cossacks, Germany dow'ed me. This was fortunate as they were the one ai I didn't share a border with. I signed ma's with all the civs against them, kicked off my GA, got an army quickly and had room to expand to 48 towns/cities as the other ai's started razing their cities. During the GA I managed to get monopoly research on steam power, industrialization, corporation and most of refining managing 5 or 6 turn research during this time. By then I had gotten electricity and replaceable parts from the ai's as well as the optionals. By the time I got a monopoly on steel, the ai also provided scientific method and I converted a pre-build to the Theory of Evolution on the same turn for atomic theory and electronics. I traded for combustion with 5-turns left and then got mass production on the same turn as the ai after already obtaining flight from them. Motorized transportation was a monopoly tech researched in 1030AD. I got ecology as my freebie and was worried when the first two ai's I traded with got ecology and computers. However, the next two got fission and after the trade I converted my palace pre-build to the UN, signed an ma with all the civs versus Babylon and won the vote 6-1.

I'll probably try this again but this time put in more science teams for better chances on the age change. An SGL for the Pyramids would be nice, too.:) If I find I can't beat the time, I may try to convert it into a conquest game as that table is also empty atm.
 
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PrinceMyshkin said:
I popped one settler

How on earth did you do that? I thought that after Emperor there was 0% chance to get anything except gold, maps, or barbarians, and even on Emperor the chance to get techs, settlers, or towns was around 5% or lower.
 

brennan

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I've been popping Settlers and Cities doing my Deity practice runs. :)
 

ThinkTank

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How on earth did you do that? I thought that after Emperor there was 0% chance to get anything except gold, maps, or barbarians, and even on Emperor the chance to get techs, settlers, or towns was around 5% or lower.

You're roughly right for non-expansionist civs, but for expansionist civs, there's a 20% chance of popping a settler at deity, see
Oystein's spreadsheet for the details.
 
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Wow! The highest chance to get a free settler is on Deity! That is insane. Is there any reason not to have huts and be Expansionist for any Deity game in the HOF? Wow! I learned something similar for PBEM games. If there are huts on Monarch/Emperor, you have to be Expansionist.

Before I was probably thinking of Sid games (only Gold, Maps, and Warriors).
 
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