G-Major 137

Pangaea · Jun 29, 2015

Not sure what the -7 came from, but possibly from the 3 workers I stole from Victoria, before I had even met Roosevelt. Stuff like this just can't be helped unless one wants to throw away every game where everything isn't 100% perfect.

The assault on Hatty did not go as planned

Too many guys died and of course next turn more planks are present and the almost dead ones almost fully healed. Hate stuff like this. Should probably have tried to move around, but it was on our (new) border so that could have been risky. Oh well. Time-out for healing. Pointless to throw bodies at that place now. Thought 5 suicidal catas would soften it up enough, but clearly I was wrong :sad:

Pangaea · Jun 29, 2015

Yuck. Things are going really badly. 20 turns later, have only taken two cities, and lost a ton of men. Hate two-front wars. The hope for 30 cities by turn 250 is just to forget. Looks like I've invaded Vietnam and is now in a deep quagmire. Get that "funk you game" feeling where I'm just hitting end turn and not caring any more.

yyeah · Jun 30, 2015

Question

Spoiler :

WastinTime · Jun 30, 2015

Construction. No, not from Mansa. Get it from someone else. Several AI have it already.

Pangaea · Jun 30, 2015

Crikey. Went back a few pages to check the updates from 900BC. Nuts, just nuts. Already Oxford, and the tech situation looks very different from my own. I'm almost at turn 250, and don't have Education yet, nor Literature, so no HE or NE either. Nobody have got MC yet so I don't have that either, though should hopefully get it in trade soon as several people are teching it.

Looks like I still don't stand a chance against the best players here, but should hopefully beat my own game, if I get there in time.

Seraiel · Jun 30, 2015

Sry to be so blunt, but you don't stand a chance against the top-players, because you're not listening. I tell you since 1000y already, that that game / map is crap, just too many important things that just didn't develop as they should. Think of how I needed to fight against Kaitzilla only because he had GLH and I didn't. You in your game got no GLH, no HGs, no good religion spread, too few Forests, too many AIs starting with metals, and and and.

I really respect you, for that you're such a fighter and don't give this game up, but seriously, if you simply kept on creating maps and playing the first 150T or 200T 'til you got a better one, you'd improve your result greatly and land instantly below 1000 AD. I'm really sorry, but when you look in the Challenges subforum, look at how players play the maps there. They develop optimal strategy, and then, they play as many maps as needed, until they got on that fits that strategy. It's ofc. a lot easier with the games being on much lower difficulty and with the aims not being as high as in this Gauntlet, but you also wouldn't go into a Table-tennis competition, if your right arm was broken.

You need to learn to play the inital-phase faster, so that you can play and compare more games, then choose the best one out of 10 or 20, and then play that one 'til the end with high care.

yyeah · Jun 30, 2015

Iam now at turn 250, slowly but surly catching up my prev game, lower city count but iam keepin up with BPT, late CS i belive turn 161 where in my 1st game i was there in like turn 147 ?. But now i have Edu only maybe 6 turns later.
I was thinking why i had later CS becouse ... ok i was lower on city count but BPT was similar... and i figured out why ... Ii had 10 stolen workers from Huayna at turn 96 witch just ate my gold ;/.
Anyway great diplo game so farm 3 ais on friendly 5 pleased, no vassals but i just get Feudalism, so iam hopeing for peace vassals, i can capitulate Asoka but i dont want it, need cities.

A big problem in this game is i dont have MoM ( nobody has it), and i dont have Marble only Asoka have it so its a little bit scary, without MoM i can just delete this save ;/.

Seraiel · Jun 30, 2015

Having no Marble is also a problem for the Taj Mahal. In my first game I didn't have Stone, I found out how big of a problem that is, when I tried to build Oxford. Chopping the Mids or the HGs was no problem, just costed an aweful lot of Forests, but building Oxford without Forests and without Stone is enough to make a game not competetive anymore.

WastinTime · Jun 30, 2015

@Pangaea. You were wise to keep playing that game. There was nothing wrong with it back on T150. It's wrong to judge a game only on how many cities you have or whether you get a certain wonder. It sounds like you played pretty well--getting ~20 cities by ~T200. Not sure why you're falling behind now, but you can't be expected to play like multi-year veteran. You're still playing better than most in the entire history of CivIV (around 1000 AD already!) You and yyeah show a lot of potential by getting up to speed so fast, and clearly have some good instinct for this game. You're doing great and you learn with each game. It's boring--and you don't learn as much--if you just play the first 150 turns over and over looking for the perfect set of circumstances. Even if you get that perfect start, how could you ever be expected to play the next 200+ turns without any practice at the end game.
Keep going. Finish this one. Just try and beat your last one. And have fun!

yyeah · Jun 30, 2015

Seraiel said:
Having no Marble is also a problem for the Taj Mahal. In my first game I didn't have Stone, I found out how big of a problem that is, when I tried to build Oxford. Chopping the Mids or the HGs was no problem, just costed an aweful lot of Forests, but building Oxford without Forests and without Stone is enough to make a game not competetive anymore.

Yea no stone would be disaster.
I will have marble for Taj, soon i will take out Asoka, hes builded even shrine for me this turn. But iam still thinking about shrine whole continent is in Conf. and i have holy city ...

Pangaea · Jun 30, 2015

WastinTime said:
@Pangaea. You were wise to keep playing that game. There was nothing wrong with it back on T150. It's wrong to judge a game only on how many cities you have or whether you get a certain wonder. It sounds like you played pretty well--getting ~20 cities by ~T200. Not sure why you're falling behind now, but you can't be expected to play like multi-year veteran. You're still playing better than most in the entire history of CivIV (around 1000 AD already!) You and yyeah show a lot of potential by getting up to speed so fast, and clearly have some good instinct for this game. You're doing great and you learn with each game. It's boring--and you don't learn as much--if you just play the first 150 turns over and over looking for the perfect set of circumstances. Even if you get that perfect start, how could you ever be expected to play the next 200+ turns without any practice at the end game.
Keep going. Finish this one. Just try and beat your last one. And have fun!

Thank you WastinTime

Have played to 1000BC, so will take some screenshots and compare a little with my previous game. Can't compete with the very best players, but the minimum goal with this game is to beat the first game and land before 1000AD. Things aren't perfect, but they weren't in the first game either, and I was only 9 turns short there.

yyeah · Jun 30, 2015

@ Panagea

Rememebr that in your first game, you didnt have free GM for sushi, no GE for mining( on time) if you fix this i think you can fight for ~900 AD, thoose things makes a huge diference.

Pangaea · Jun 30, 2015

yyeah said:
@ Panagea

Rememebr that in your first game, you didnt have free GM for sushi, no GE for mining( on time) if you fix this i think you can fight for ~900 AD, thoose things makes a huge diference.

I had the GE then, but lacking the GM for Sushi was a huge issue. Losing Taj was bad too. Hopefully both these things work out better this time.

Seraiel · Jun 30, 2015

WastinTime said:
@Pangaea. You were wise to keep playing that game. There was nothing wrong with it back on T150. It's wrong to judge a game only on how many cities you have or whether you get a certain wonder. It sounds like you played pretty well--getting ~20 cities by ~T200. Not sure why you're falling behind now, but you can't be expected to play like multi-year veteran. You're still playing better than most in the entire history of CivIV (around 1000 AD already!) You and yyeah show a lot of potential by getting up to speed so fast, and clearly have some good instinct for this game. You're doing great and you learn with each game. It's boring--and you don't learn as much--if you just play the first 150 turns over and over looking for the perfect set of circumstances. Even if you get that perfect start, how could you ever be expected to play the next 200+ turns without any practice at the end game.
Keep going. Finish this one. Just try and beat your last one. And have fun!

There were things wrong with it Wastin. The GLH went to the wrong civ, one he couldn't conquer anywhere in time and he had almost no Forests.

You can write motivating things as many as you want, but with posts like the above, you only lengthen his way to the top. Maybe he'll learn more and have more fun, but he'll not score an 8xx or 9xx finish.
Look at how yyeah handles the game, he knows that if he doesn't get the MoM, he can throw away his game.

It's my own experience that made me notice, that I'd never have a chance to belong to the top, if I couldn't match their ~~early game~~ game at any time. You yourself wrote in this thread, "it's all about reaching the milestones, you must do everything to reach each milestone in time, then you'll get a 700 AD finish" , and what I do, is just adding some milestones. Number of cities isn't everything, there are also certain World Wonders that are crucial to a good finish date, and having almost no Forests is a total gamekiller, I already wrote that "the answer to doing anything in CIV fast, seems to be Forests, Forests for Oxford, for SS-parts ... ... ... .

--------------

@ Pangaea: I'll stop writing anything towards your games, you don't seem to want to read it anyhow.

Pangaea · Jun 30, 2015

Seraiel said:
@ Pangaea: I'll stop writing anything towards your games, you don't seem to want to read it anyhow.

I read it, of course. But if your advice is, time and again, "throw away the game", then it's not the most useful, is it?

I'm not going to play 20 games for 200 turns and then see which one is best. I'd rather jump out of a tall building. This game has progressed fairly far already, is far from crap, so I have a chance to beat my previous game, and finish in time to submit it. No chance for that if I'm going to get everything 100% perfect. Getting a great start with horses in reach is already pretty tough, never mind workersteals, AIs, wonders, forests, huts, RNG luck. Even if I had all that going for me, I wouldn't be able to finish in 700AD anyway. This is the 2nd game on Marathon I'm going to finish, about the fifth space game I have ever played. Can't exactly expect to beat the elite veterans with such light experience

Pangaea · Jun 30, 2015

1000BC - Turn 250.

Struggled against Hatty earlier because she built a ton of units including a team of spears, and I lost many units trying to attack a city. After healing up I wised up, and moved past that city and took her backyard instead, including her last source of metal. Settled another city myself too. Pericles and Hammurabi have encroached on my land, Hammy settled close to the auto-razed Dutch last stronghold, but I had my hands tied up and it's jungleland, so not too fussed about it. Either I grab it later, or they hopefully turn into good (peace) vassals.

Spoiler :

Compared with my previous game, there is both good and bad news.
Gold-save, first game

26 cities
29 workers
391 at 100%, with -327
-22 at 0% research
GW, Mids, MoM, ToA, GLib
No Academy

Gems-save, second game (current)

27 cities
26 workers
555 at 100%, with -302
+115 at 0% research (break even at roughly 30%)
SH, Oracle, Mids
Academy built

The tech situation is pretty similar, but in the first game more techs are available in trade, I just didn't have a means to get them yet. The economy in the current game is much better, and nobody have Feudalism yet, while in the first game most had it already.

In the first game I had MoM and GLib, while in the current game I don't have Literature yet (in two turns, though) and MoM may be under severe risk of falling into German hands.

The army situation is fairly similar, though I had war elephants in the first game, which make things a bit easier. The army was also in position to grab two Indian cities. Unless Hammurabi does some funny business, my east should be secure now, which means a one-front war, while it was on two fronts for quite some time yet in the first game. Hopefully this means I can push into America and take out most, if not all, of Roosevelt 12 cities, and then go further into Germany and grab GLH and MoM if he builds it before I can.

Pericles is another possible war target, on my border further north. Would be grand if he could become a peace vassal, but I believe he requires Friendly too, so that's a tough ask. It did help greatly that I got a food crisis event that gave me +3

with him, however, so currently he's hovering on the border of Pleased/Friendly.

The hope is that I get the free GA and MoM, can launch a Golden Age, switch to a religion and OR, and pump out some great people. May not get Philo in time, but a GA will at least allow me to change civics and finally choose a religion. Bit tricky between Judaism and Hinduism (Jew shrine has been built, but Elizabeth is far away), but I think Hindism would be best. Just wish Hammurabi would change to that somehow (very unlikely).

Pangaea · Jun 30, 2015

Pangaea said:
1000BC - Turn 250.
Nobody have Feudalism yet, and I hope it stays that way a bit longer, as Roosevelt getting it would be BAD.

Fire up the game again, hit next turn, de Gaulle has Longbows. Next turn again, two more guys have longbows, including Roosevelt.

Feck

We're already at war, he has tons of friends (so don't want to peace treaty and re-declare) and is right in my way, so don't see much other alternative than trying to clobber through him. Do you guys remember what kind of numbers of catas I need against longbows? 3 per longbow or something like that?

Was bound to happen any moment I suppose, but I hoped it would be a bit longer, so I could take a few cities at least, and that Roosevelt wouldn't be practically first across the line. As usual, once somebody gets Feudalism, it tends to spread like wildfire.

Always find it tricky in this period of the game, with so many balls in the air. Crucial wonders, NE, HE, forges, universities, and war on top.

Pangaea · Jul 1, 2015

Funny thing I just noticed; perhaps you're all aware of it. Immortals get +50% against Archery units, not Archers. That means they count for Longbows too \o/

Okay, Longbows in cities are still terrible beasts, but in the open an Immortal will get ~50% against them. First strikes still mean longbows will have better odds, but not by much.

Seraiel · Jul 1, 2015

I haven't looked, but isn't it normal, that a unit has it's bonus for a whole group of units? I actually only know of the Phalanx that's different, and that's probably a bug that never got fixed, because it makes absolutely no sense, that the most famous spear unit only works against Chariots, while the normal Spear has its bonus against all mounted.

Pangaea · Jul 1, 2015

There are some others too. Bonus against Axeman and Rifleman. Perhaps others too, I haven't looked either. Phalanx is an odd one. Does it get bonus against Immortals and War Chariots for instance? Based on Chariots, but not a Chariot.

How are everybody else doing btw, like WastinTime, have you had time to play much lately?

G-Major 137

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If you want anything from I please ask in German

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If you want anything from I please ask in German

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If you want anything from I please ask in German

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