G-Major 43

[ianw1610]

What's the earliest date anyone has gotten optics? 5 BC is the best I have managed, using oracle->MC, GS->compass, GP->theology, GS->optics.

In my 385AD submission, I got Optics in 185BC (Turn 161). I researched to Metal Casting by Turn 95, Oracled Machinery on Turn 96, bulbed Theology on Turn 135, researched Compass by Turn 148, and bulbed Optics on turn 161.

As I had been occupied with building Missionaries and generating Research and Great People, this resulted in building Caravels as Caravels (i.e. I didn't build them as Triremes and subsequently upgrade to Caravels)...

Although my finish date has been surpassed in the last few days - I'm now down to position #2 - so I'll defer to the superior knowledge of the new #1, whoever he or she may be......

 

[Ozbenno]

Although my finish date has been surpassed in the last few days - I'm now down to position #2 - so I'll defer to the superior knowledge of the new #1, whoever he or she may be......

I haven't moved from #4 so it must be Misotu or Miraculix (who were 2nd and 3rd at the update).

 

[Miraculix]

I haven't moved from #4 so it must be Misotu or Miraculix (who were 2nd and 3rd at the update).

I am still number 3 with 700AD. I guess that means that Misotu has moved up to 1st.

Regarding dates, in my 700AD game, I had Metal Casting by the Oracle in turn 91 (1725 BC), Machinery in turn 128 (800 BC), Compass in turn 143 (455 BC), and Optics in turn 159 (215 BC). At that time I was two turns ahead of ianw1610's 385AD game, so I guess i must have messed up the last part of the game.

In another game I had Optics by turn 154 (290 BC). Unfortunately, Christianity was the first religion on my continent, so Hatshepsut demanded Theology, and I gave it to her....

 

[Coilean]

I've turned off goodie huts now, and it seems to help a fair amount, RE: using oracle for machinery. I've managed it a couple times, although I'm not sure it's as much of an advantage as I thought it would be. I can get writing a lot faster and generate my first GS while building the oracle if I don't have to worry about researching MC so early.

Seems like the best route for me so far is to get out a second town quick with early bronze and worker->worker->settler, throwing one warrior in there to grow to size 3 once irrigated tiles are up. Then chop a library in the capital and generate first GS there while building oracle to get MC. If you are lucky enough to have a religion in the capital early, then generate GP there with a temple, hopefully before town #2 generates it's GS.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

On my better games, I get Optics in the 400BC area. But in terms of the final date, so much depends on the map - how close the other continent is, and where the cities of the remaining AI are placed.

Also, ideally, one early Religion is founded on each Continent, so one doesn't waste time spreading a non-AP Religion to each Religion starved Civ before spreading the AP Religion.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Misotu]

I am still number 3 with 700AD. I guess that means that Misotu has moved up to 1st.

Admirable bit of teamwork deduction there guys

 

[Miraculix]

Hmmmm... I had 3 gold and lots of food in my capital, and the AI build the Oracle in turn 76.

 

[Miraculix]

Played another map where all civs were reachable through coast. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that before I was nearly at Optics. Besides, Christianity had spread to Ramesses.

Two 'perfect' maps in a row, and then got unlucky.

How can you make sure all civs on the continent have a religion before Christianity if you don't have another religion to spread?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

How can you make sure all civs on the continent have a religion before Christianity if you don't have another religion to spread?

Could try a beeline to Monotheism, hoping to beat all the AIs. Otherwise, you just have to hope that an early Religion spreads to you early enough.

Another possibility is using a second Great Prophet to bulb Code of Laws. However, it may be hard to get a second Great Prophet after getting two Great Scientists and a Great Prophet.

Sun Tzu W

 

[Misotu]

Played another map where all civs were reachable through coast. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that before I was nearly at Optics. Besides, Christianity had spread to Ramesses.

Two 'perfect' maps in a row, and then got unlucky.

How can you make sure all civs on the continent have a religion before Christianity if you don't have another religion to spread?

It's difficult. I played one game where none of the AIs on my continent had a religion. I researched code of laws after getting Theology, spread christianity around, and then used confu as the AP religion. It's an unwelcome diversion though

 

[DJMGator13]

It's difficult. I played one game where none of the AIs on my continent had a religion. I researched code of laws after getting Theology, spread christianity around, and then used confu as the AP religion. It's an unwelcome diversion though

Do you have to re-spread Confu to all AIs or just enough to make sure you're not +75% of the vote?

 

[Misotu]

Under those circumstances, you would just need to make sure that each of the AIs has confu in one of its cities in order to trigger the Diplomatic Victory option. That's why it's not really a way forward - unless you get lucky, it means building far too many missionaries of the two types. Having said that ... the game to which I refer above was my second-best game to date Funny how the game works out sometimes.

I am never anywhere near 75% of the vote, so it's not something that I worry about! I do keep an eye if one of the AIs starts spreading confu madly though - as Sun Tzu Wu posted earlier on this thread, it's a problem if any civ has 75%, regardless of whether it is a candidate in the election.

 

[Coilean]

I think I had a slim chance for a new best date, but made a few screwups that put my win off to 730AD. I tried a highly unusual start (for me at least), settling on a PH marble with 3 crabs and 3 furs in the BFC (no mining or farming resources!), and decided on producing workboat->worker->workboat, researching hunting->AH->writing. After my city was done growing, I was producing 33 raw science a turn (17 commerce, +2 trade route, plus palace and 2 scientists), for 41.25 science per turn at size 7 with the library, which is about the same as my early science rates in a lot of starts incuding gold or gems. I think I've been underestimating a lot of my coastal starts before this.

Anyway, my situation looked bad at first, as I was on a small continent alone with Gandhi, but quickly took a turn for the better when I found Hatty and Mansa on a nearby small continent without a religion (I was playing with High water level). This opened the door to a golden opportunity: if I was able to get Hatty to adopt Gandhi's Hinduism, then I would easily have the voting block I needed to win by adopting Hinduism myself, since once I spread christianity to Hatty and Gandhi, they would spread it like crazy to themselves and have a ton of votes to put behind me.

But then I made my first big mistake, whipping a temple into the oracle for a maximum overflow production bonus, when I should have whipped a settler instead (I was thinking to get started on the prophet right away, since my first GS was already out). However, getting my second city out as late as I did meant that it couldn't get up a library and run scientists in time to generate my 2nd GS for optics. I managed to oracle machinery in 1400BC, but having to manually research compass, rather than bulb it, cost me 18 turns and I didn't get optics until 230BC. I also erred by not chopping as many of my forests in the BFC as I could have. I was trying to keep my health up, but shouldn't have worried about it since I was bound to acquire at least a couple of health in trades later on, and taken the early production boost to my worker/settler/granary instead.

By 475AD I was nearly done spreading christians in my caravels when I completed the AP, and was patiently awaiting the RL vote a few turns later after I finally got christianity to Asoka. But then I realized after a few turns, that in fact I had completely overlooked Isabella and forgotten to spread christinty to her! She was 10 turns away or so by caravel, so I quickly whipped a missionary and caravel, and rerouted a far away christian bearing caravel for backup. Fortunately, my first missionary succeeded in 715AD and the RL vote popped up the next turn.

After playing this game, it really seems the vote will be trivial any time Gandhi and Hatty share a religion. Once you spread the AP religion to them, you can adopt their religion for an easy +15 or better relations total, and be assured of getting a ton of votes, since they will spread it to their own cities pretty thoroughly without your help. In fact, just sharing a religion with Hatty alone would probably be good enough, since she has an easy favorite civic for relations bonus, as long as you withhold the AP religion from Gandhi as long as possible so he can't build up a ton of votes before the RL election.

 

[Almond]

I was wondering if someone could give a more detailed strategy, such as first city build order. The highest difficulty that I can beat without using quechuas is monarch, so this gauntlet is a bit above my pay grade but I want to complete the QM..

I chopped the oracle but Theology was not one of the options for the free tech. Then I got a GP and again theology was not an option. I quit when someone else founded christianity.

Should I research BW first so that I can chop or should I put that off for a bit and focus on techs that will allow harvesting of special resources? What is the best research path?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

make sure you have mysticism/poly and writing to bulb theology

 

[Ozbenno]

I chopped the oracle but Theology was not one of the options for the free tech. Then I got a GP and again theology was not an option. I quit when someone else founded christianity.

If you are going for Theology from Oracle, you will need to have Monotheism and Writing researched first. If you are trying to bulb Theology, you will need Meditiation, Monotheism and Writing all researched.

 

[Misotu]

I was wondering if someone could give a more detailed strategy, such as first city build order. The highest difficulty that I can beat without using quechuas is monarch, so this gauntlet is a bit above my pay grade but I want to complete the QM..

...

Should I research BW first so that I can chop or should I put that off for a bit and focus on techs that will allow harvesting of special resources? What is the best research path?

The first city build order really depends on your strategy. Typically I would do worker-warrior-(warrior)-settler depending on city growth etc, but after that it's all to do with your tech strategy, whether a religion has spread to you and so on.

In terms of tech, bronze working is really important in this game. I usually go mining-animal husbandry-bronze, sometimes mining-bronze, depending on the resources around.

 

[Almond]

Thanks for the tips, they are helpful. Now I am wondering about how to keep the peace. Is there a thread that deals with keeping peace on higher difficulties? How do you placate one rival with civics or religion without pissing off another? Do you always give tribute when they demand it? Do you offer them gifts without being asked to do so?

Also, misotu, if you're going minimalist with just three cities how many workers do you need? Also do you ever bother with barracks and how many defending units do you usually stack in each city?

 

[AgedOne]

Thanks for the tips, they are helpful. Now I am wondering about how to keep the peace. Is there a thread that deals with keeping peace on higher difficulties? How do you placate one rival with civics or religion without pissing off another? Do you always give tribute when they demand it? Do you offer them gifts without being asked to do so?

Hi
I'm not sure about a thread, but I can tell you some things I've found helpful.

First, picking the right bunch of civs/leaders who are less likely to fight with each other or you.
There is a factor held for each leader called BasePeaceWeight, which determines how peaceful they are. It's all held in the CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml file, but a helpful guy who goes under the name of Anion has dug all of these values (and many more) out and made a downloadable booklet. You should find it here.

So you can find in here, for example, that Gandhi is a peace-loving 10, while Genghis Khan is a rabid dog 0. No surprises. But you've got all the rest there. If you pick a bunch that are near 7, 8, 9 or 10 you should be in for a relatively easier ride.

Then, trade with them! Open borders. Yes, even give them gifts from time to time. I've found that playing this gauntlet goes way against my normal trading strategies. You know how you're going to win, so honest trading goes out of the window! Give things away, but try not to run yourself out of things to give. Give things away at the most profitable moments. Like a few turns before a vote is coming up.

Religion is very important, especially if you have the wrong one. It's better to run no state religion, to avoid upsetting people. Of course, you have to run some religion while you're building the AP, but you can turn it off again afterwards.

Civics can be useful. If you know that you are going to be running a certain civic, then you can pick a leader or two that prefers that civic, and get an attitude boost. You can only go so far, though. Some leaders like civics that require you to have researched most of the tech tree - like Free Speech or Emancipation. In those cases, it's not really worth the bother.

Anyway, that's my 3 pennorth, or 5 cents. Take them with a pinch of salt, perhaps. I don't think I'll be one of the leaders at the end of this gauntlet.

 

[Misotu]

Hi Almond. Some of the things you can do to keep the peace are:

1. Choose the right opponents and
2. run the right civics they like
3. Give in to any demand, pretty much, except maybe an early gift of Theology!
4. Only stay in your AP religion for the shortest possible time, otherwise run a religion everyone likes, or run no religion.
5. Trading resources, even if they have nothing to give you in return.

This is a relatively short game, so in terms of civics you can probably only run organised religion, slavery and hereditary rule. It's a good idea to pick opponents who like one of those eg Ramesses, Hattie, Joao. Then there are peaceful opponents like Asoka or Gandhi for example, who are easy to please. There are opponents who become very friendly if you give them techs, eg Mansa and Lincoln. Sun Tzu Wu recommends Zara because he has a hidden diplomatic modifier which makes him more friendly (I don't like him - he picks on me and my friends ).

For 3 cities I build 4 workers. For 2 cities, 3 workers.

I put one warrior in each city. I only build extra units when I need extra happiness (in hereditary rule). No barracks for sure!

There are some very good threads on religious victory but I can't locate them right now I know Sun Tzu Wu has posted a lot on this topic and is very good at this style of victory so he, or someone else here, might be able to post a link.