Game changed for the escapist

[Buccaneer]

I guess that would rule out Bombers damaging a city down to one then since it's not a seige unit.

In no civ games to date, they have never made it so a specific unit can defeat another unit or capture a city and they shouldn't start now. So un-civ-like. They have made general classifications like a ranged unit cannot capture a city and that's fine but it did not care what kind of unit was damaging the city.

 

[Buccaneer]

You are right about that! I am just joking with you. You must be able to take a city out even with walls if you keep the pressure and keep pounding on it. It will just be harder.

And that's fine. Perhaps he said that (or was misquoted) just to make a point about the increased difficulty of taking a city. But enough Swords, Keshiks, Camels or Bombers should do adequate damage as well to walled cities. Just don't force needless restrictions on gameplay.

 

[Pouakai]

did anyone else catch this?? Civ 3??

"We targeted Beyond the Sword as the amount of content we wanted to include," Shirk said, referring to the amazing expansion to Civilization 3. "I think in a lot of ways we have hit that and in some ways, especially in terms of new game systems, we surpassed it."

Nonetheless, that he thinks they've surpassed BTS is extremely exciting!

 

[MadDjinn]

I guess that would rule out Bombers damaging a city down to one then since it's not a seige unit.

In no civ games to date, they have never made it so a specific unit can defeat another unit or capture a city and they shouldn't start now. So un-civ-like. They have made general classifications like a ranged unit cannot capture a city and that's fine but it did not care what kind of unit was damaging the city.

stop being pedantic about it.

Bombers are of course the late game 'siege' units of choice, and will do fine.

The point being made is that your usual archer rush will likely get crushed, or take far more than normal, when you could have just brought a siege unit or two.

That can only be a good thing. Same for trimming Keshiks down.

and no, the Mongols wouldn't agree with you. When they 'took' most of Hungary/etc area, what they actually did was take the land and they couldn't get into the castles.

Huge volley of arrows is great against people, not so much against stone walls.

besides, what it's likely alluding to is that 'non-siege' ranged units will be less effective (than now) vs. cities and siege units will be less effective vs. units (at the same time as being useful vs. cities).

that's easily achieved via the HP changes and combat damage changes, but if they changed it so that the silly Xbow/Keshik domination vs. cities and everything else is changed, then it's a great change.

 

[nokmirt]

I guess that would rule out Bombers damaging a city down to one then since it's not a seige unit.

In no civ games to date, they have never made it so a specific unit can defeat another unit or capture a city and they shouldn't start now. So un-civ-like. They have made general classifications like a ranged unit cannot capture a city and that's fine but it did not care what kind of unit was damaging the city.

Things are beginning to change a little bit. I suppose we just have to adapt, like I had to with the current diplomacy system. I am not an expert at it, but I understand things a little better. Declarations of friendship can actually be worse than declaring war. I am learning this the hard way. They have backfired on me time and time again in the game I am playing. All the warnings you should not get too close to this civ or that civ, and one way or another they all end up DoWing on you or denouncing you. I never declared war, but still have plenty of enemies.

India also covets my wonders, Japan my land. He is mad from his capital. Which he sits in due to my drubbing of him, for his backstab DoW on me, early in the game. The great thing is that I will never have to fight samurai.

Rome is mad as well, because at the beginning of the game I built a city near them. Those decrepit senators are ball busting denouncers. Ceasar says I ignored his warning to not build cities near him. Thats the only aggressive thing I have done all game, except fight back. They all DoW on me and my keshiks massacre them into oblivion. Yet, I am the bad guy, these fools asked for it.

 

[Buccaneer]

Pedantic? Yeah, that would be the case. Just a reaction to the possibility of them forcing restrictions.

Walls would come early, wouldn't they? And the first catapults about 30 turns later for most civs? An archer rush is one thing (which I have never done) but there are a lot of other pre-Math units that should be effective in the meantime - like most of the Ancient units?

nokmirt, I'm glad to see you learning. I think we all are going to have to adapt to the changes in G&K, perhaps the biggest leap between versions apart from BtS->Civ5.

 

[nokmirt]

stop being pedantic about it.

Bombers are of course the late game 'siege' units of choice, and will do fine.

The point being made is that your usual archer rush will likely get crushed, or take far more than normal, when you could have just brought a siege unit or two.

That can only be a good thing. Same for trimming Keshiks down.

and no, the Mongols wouldn't agree with you. When they 'took' most of Hungary/etc area, what they actually did was take the land and they couldn't get into the castles.

Huge volley of arrows is great against people, not so much against stone walls.

Actually that sounds reasonable. Except the Mongols could get into cities/castles and they knew how to use siege equipment quite well.

"The Invasion of Russia

Spoiler :

Although the Mongols had already made contacts with the Russians a decade earlier in 1222, during Subedei's legendary expedition, the Mongols did not establish any permanent government in those lands. When Chingis Khan died, the northwestern territories of the empire were given to his son, Jochi. One of Jochi's sons was Batu Khan, who inherited the westernmost territories of Jochi's ulus. But Batu's land was small and a great part of the land he was "given," was not yet under Mongol control. In the Khuriltai of 1235, Batu showed his intension to bring these lands under Mongol control. This decision would create an extraordinary conquest that in the end, Batu's army would have traveled five thousand miles! Subedei agreed to go with Batu; and in 1237, the two gathered a force that numbered 120,000 men ready to cross the frozen Volga into Russia.

During winter, the Mongols crossed the Volga River, and afterwards, ridding north into the forests to hide their presence. The first major city they came to was Riazan, which fell after a five-day catapult assault. Then they rode north and captured Kolumna, Moscow, and defeated the Grand Duke of Suzdal, the most powerful force in the northern half of Russia. From there the Mongols advanced towards Novgorod. However, the siege was abandoned after the marshes proved too frustrating to travel through. Although Novgorod became one of the only major cities in Russia to avoid the Mongol conquest, they would keep a friendly relation with the Mongols by paying tribute. After the frustration at Novgorod, Batu and Subedei rode south and attacked the city of Kozelsk, which valiantly held off the Mongols and even successfully ambushed a Mongol vanguard - a feat rarely ever been done. Kozelsk held off for seven weeks, and after it finally fell, the entire population was slaughtered in a way so great that the Mongols named it the City of Woe. The last obstacle in Russia was the great city of Kiev, often called the "Mother of all Russian cities". Because Kiev was so important in Eastern Europe, the Mongols even tried to take it undamaged. Prince Michael of Kiev did indeed realize the inevitable capture of Kiev. Unfortunately, he fled, and his second in command was a tenacious officer and decided to resist. When the Mongols did storm the city, the only major structure that was not destroyed was the Cathedral St Sophia."

http://allempires.com/article/index.php?q=The_Mongol_Empire

"The assault on Urgench proved to be the most difficult battle of the Mongol invasion. The city was built along the river Amu Darya in a marshy delta area. The soft ground did not lend itself to siege warfare, and there was a lack of large stones for the catapults. The Mongols attacked regardless, and the city fell only after the defenders put up a stout defense, fighting block for block. Mongolian casualties were higher than normal, due to the unaccustomed difficulty of adapting Mongolian tactics to city fighting." They also could defeat cities without siege equipment if needs be. Nothing stopped them.

 

[Louis XXIV]

did anyone else catch this?? Civ 3??

"We targeted Beyond the Sword as the amount of content we wanted to include," Shirk said, referring to the amazing expansion to Civilization 3. "I think in a lot of ways we have hit that and in some ways, especially in terms of new game systems, we surpassed it."

Beyond the Sword is Civ4. Conquests was Civ3. Both are good targets to reach, though.

 

[anandus]

Hmm.. Maybe a dumb question, but aren't unit upgrades already at least one tech removed at the moment? I can't think of a 'direct' upgrade?

 

[Haig]

Siege not as effective against units anymore. a HUGE improvement.

Someone wrote that when Carthage's elephans battle it out with Austria's swordmen,
the swordmen have a negative penalty from not having enough iron, and still they take
quite a lot of beating. So longer battles are really true.

Also someone noted that instaheal heals only 50% hitpoints back. Didn't notice this
but sounds good.

Civ V has been slowly crawling to become my fave Civ game(and fave game of all times) but after this
expansion it's pretty clear.

 

[AriochIV]

I did just notice that one of the Austrian swordsmen healed itself before counterattacking, but only halfway.

 

[Pouakai]

If you look in the siege of Lalibela, notice how much more health cities have. It lost about 100 health and it was only partially at full health, possibly 200 / 250?

 

[Deggial]

I did just notice that one of the Austrian swordsmen healed itself before counterattacking, but only halfway.

Yes, that's interesting, isn't it?
I wonder if this is because there is an enemy unit at an adjacent tile or if they changed it to this no matter what.

 

[AriochIV]

Yes, that's interesting, isn't it?
I wonder if this is because there is an enemy unit at an adjacent tile or if they changed it to this no matter what.

Well, now that I think about it, it seems an obvious change. If you want battles to last longer and give units more health, then allowing them to insta-heal to full would be even more irritating than it is now (which is already a lot).

 

[Deggial]

... even more irritating than it is now (which is already a lot).

This!

In addition, I would still love to see that instant healing would consume one turn of action.
Of course, the healing unit is then very vulnurable to attacks (especially ranged attacks) and may start the next turn with less HP than before. Therefore, it would be wise to retreat befor healing. (IIRC, it *is* possible to move in the turn you gain a promotion and actually promote/instant heal the next turn.)

 

[AriochIV]

In addition, I would still love to see that instant healing would consume one turn of action.

Or something like that, I agree. The situation is at its most annoying when an almost-dead unit instantly heals to full and then counterattacks.

 

[sumodaz]

I really like the idea that you now need siege units for cities with walls, it also makes me think they must be quite confident with ability of the new improved AI, especially it being able to position and protect them whilst attacking.

 

[theadder]

I really like the idea that you now need siege units for cities with walls, it also makes me think they must be quite confident with ability of the new improved AI, especially it being able to position and protect them whilst attacking.

It does suggest that; unfortunately, they seemed to be pretty confident in the pre-release discussion regarding AI also.

I'd very much like to believe it, though.

 

[Dragonflow]

Yay, the escapist used my screenshot of Maria Theresa in their screenshot gallery!

My screenshot taken during the demo:

Spoiler :

Screenshot used by the Escapist:

Spoiler :

 

[apocalypse105]

Important quote:

"Siege weapons effectiveness against units has been decreased, while they will be absolutely necessary if you want to capture a city that has built a wall improvement. No more simply trying to overwhelm a city with massive amounts of warriors. Without siege, you are out of luck."

Well at least if they remove the iron requirment for the catapult I am ok with it Or else this will break the game appart

Then this happens:

You don't have iron you're screwed, Without siege, you are out of luck.

The game laughs at you haha might as well restart if you want domination

Or did they comfirm that catapult doesn't require iron?