[GS] Gathering Storm General Discussion Thread

[V. Soma]

Not a word was said about loyalty - so nothing improved on that...?

 

[conorbebe]

I’ve been catching up on the thread and just wanted to add my two cents on the expansion.

Rise and Fall was underwhelming for me. Although it did add a few features I enjoyed, some like the Emergencies system felt shallow and tacked-on, and the expansion didn’t really feel like it changed the game to much degree.

Gathering Storm however seems to be brimming with new content and features that will impact every player’s experience from the very start of the game to the very end. Natural Disasters have been something I’ve been cautious about wanting in a Civ game for a while, only out of fear they may be implemented poorly. Gathering Storm seems to do the concept great justice and brings with it the idea of a dynamic world which I am in love with!

Furthermore, the additions of a Production Queue, Canal District, railroads, and the return of World Congress feel like a love letter to Civ fans. Had you told me a few days ago what the next expansion for Civ VI would include, I would have said it was too good to be true.

And even though I could envision a better lineup of new civs and leaders, the simple fact that we will most likely be seeing the return of the Ottomans, Incas, Mali, and Carthage/Phoenicia has me more than satisfied! And Polynesia being de-blobbed into the Māori is a dream come true!

EXTREMELY hyped for this expansion! Very well done, Firaxis!

 

[Wizard-Bob]

I am very excited to hear of this expansion! Seems like quite a bit that will appeal to me. Game on!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Ed talked about England using their extra Iron output for more swordsmen, but really, use it for more knights. Provided knights do not require both iron and horses now, which might be a possibility.

 

[Disgustipated]

Except the destructive effects of a serious storm or blizzard may take many years to repair. Think about the aftermath of hurricanes like Katrina or Maria, or the storms that destroyed the Spanish or Mongolian armadas (the original “kamikaze”, divine winds). We need not imagine that the storm itself lasts the whole year, but rather that turn represents one year (or twenty) during which a particularly bad storm occurred.

This is how I envision them. It's why I have no problem with this mechanic and look forward to it. I think of it like this. A bad storm is something that happened during 1 year of a turn (which may last 20 years). And when you think about how devastating bad storms would be in ancient eras compared to modern eras it makes sense. A bad storm in the modern era can somewhat be repaired in 1 year (though hurricanes may take several years). Where as a bad storm for ancient era people's would be more difficult to recover from, and would impact a civilization for years if not decades.

Rise and Fall was underwhelming for me. Although it did add a few features I enjoyed, some like the Emergencies system felt shallow and tacked-on, and the expansion didn’t really feel like it changed the game to much degree.

I'm getting the impression that some of these features in this expansion were meant for Rise and Fall and they either couldn't get them working properly, or ran out of time. Anyone else have that impression?

 

[acluewithout]

Do you now what civs sucks and its not going to recieve a buff? Spain, at least they have deliver on England.

Sorry, but does Spain actually suck? Yeah, don’t know. Have a look at their Civ of the Week thread. They’re not crazy powerful, but they can do some cool stuff with Religion. Resourceless musketmen are punchy - a lot easier to get to than RedCoats. Spain just peaks late is all. But that’s the design.

If they’ve buffed colonial cities and or coastal cities Spain could be in a really good place.

 

[criZp]

Not a word was said about loyalty - so nothing improved on that...?

what do you mean? why should they improve a system that works fine?

 

[Lord Lakely]

I wonder how it would work for UUs. If Iron reduces the cost of Swordsmen, it would be silly if it didnt do the same for Legions...

 

[Victoria]

My thought is you could maybe delay Harbours. Come back to them later, and leverage the fact they’re half price and give you frigates for free.

My thoughts were the opposite, build 2 harbours by chopping in 2 quads and get 4 quads instead... instant assault force. Even 1 harbour with 2 is enough to take out early coastal cities if you are fast.

use it for more knights

sure but same with swords, you can produce 1/3rd faster but that's all the benefit. It still gets an army on the field faster and that may be a big thing in MP.

 

[acluewithout]

I'm getting the impression that some of these features in this expansion were meant for Rise and Fall and they either couldn't get them working properly, or ran out of time. Anyone else have that impression?

Yes. Emergencies really feel like that. I think they’ve basically been working on GF for two years. RnF was just to space things out.

I’m surprised we’re not getting something around Ideologies. I’m sure Ed mentioned that before. All the loyalty and legacy card stuff seemed really built for that. I mean, there’s not going to be a third expansion (God help us. This rollercoaster has been enough.) But I really wonder. No Ideologies. Nothing more on loyalty or government plaza or governors. A few big Civs or leaders still missing. Hmm.

It’s all... very odd.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I'm getting the impression that some of these features in this expansion were meant for Rise and Fall and they either couldn't get them working properly, or ran out of time. Anyone else have that impression?

That is entirely possible. It is not uncommon for devs to have a long wishlist of features they want to put in a game and then run out of time to get to all of them properly. So any features that they did not have time to get to, would be carried over to the next expansion. Of all the features, the World Congress is probably the one that was originally intended for Rise & Fall. We know that the World Congress is something that they've wanted to put in the game ever since Vanilla. Plus, the World Congress is the one big feature that appears to fit more with the themes of Rise & Fall. The dynamic map with natural disasters and climate change fits better with the themes of this expansion so it probably was always intended for this expansion, not Rise & Fall. Just my speculation.

 

[acluewithout]

My thoughts were the opposite, build 2 harbours by chopping in 2 quads and get 4 quads instead... instant assault force. Even 1 harbour with 2 is enough to take out early coastal cities if you are fast.


sure but same with swords, you can produce 1/3rd faster but that's all the benefit. It still gets an army on the field faster and that may be a big thing in MP.

I really hope they’ve fixed the +1 movement thing. It’s going to be very annoying getting free naval units early if they lose their buff.

 

[V. Soma]

what do you mean? why should they improve a system that works fine?

I just feel there could be more potential in the loyalty feature to express internal affairs

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yes. Emergencies really feel like that. I think they’ve basically been working on GF for two years. RnF was just to space things out.

I’m surprised we’re not getting something around Ideologies. I’m sure Ed mentioned that before. All the loyalty and legacy card stuff seemed really built for that. I mean, there’s not going to be a third expansion (God help us. This rollercoaster has been enough.) But I really wonder. No Ideologies. Nothing more on loyalty or government plaza or governors. A few big Civs or leaders still missing. Hmm.

It’s all... very odd.

I guess? What were the ideologies, though, really? Seems to me like basically governments with different policy cards on them. I suppose there could be more gov-exclusive cards and it would be about the same thing.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I just feel there could be more potential in the loyalty feature to express internal affairs

Again, they had like an hour. IT doesn't mean it's not changed a bit. And I'm sure not everything is nailed down totally either.

 

[Leyrann]

Yes. Emergencies really feel like that. I think they’ve basically been working on GF for two years. RnF was just to space things out.

I’m surprised we’re not getting something around Ideologies. I’m sure Ed mentioned that before. All the loyalty and legacy card stuff seemed really built for that. I mean, there’s not going to be a third expansion (God help us. This rollercoaster has been enough.) But I really wonder. No Ideologies. Nothing more on loyalty or government plaza or governors. A few big Civs or leaders still missing. Hmm.

It’s all... very odd.

Admit it, you want there to be a third expansion, and you actually see a world where it happens.

 

[Proclo]

This. I will obviously buy the expansion the day it comes out because I am a Civfanatic, and I will enjoy all the new features momentarily like a kid at a candy store. But I am concerned that what they have introduced is not enough to derail the late game aggression juggernaut winning formula strategy, which is: expand early --> conquer 1-2 neighbors easily --> snowball --> reach industrial age, maybe conquer 1-2 more civs --> click end turn 1000 times to any victory type you choose.

The only way to challenge the aggressive snowballer is to introduce mechanics that DO NOT depend on the AI's ability to wage war (because let's face it, the AI will never be to anyone's satisfaction. ever.) The natural disasters seem promising, but the detriments don't seem to be that punishing. I am glad they changed emergencies, but they will remain a total joke so long as the AI cannot competently stage an attack -- maybe emergencies trigger something else negative entirely that doesn't depend on AI (doubling military upkeep costs of the aggressor? 1/3 of cities declaring independence? cultural and science points reduced by 75% due to cutoff of scientific/cultural exchange?). That would be a start.

The other hope I see for truly challenging an aggressive snowballer is the World Congress. But will the World Congress be able to take any actions that will truly challenge someone in the lead? Banning furs is not going to cut it. And will the aggressive snowballer be able to snowball diplo points as well (on top of snowballing all the other metrics), and just avert any World Congress action? Those are the questions that I'll have on my mind when they start doing more reveals. I truly hope that we discover ways to really challenge this winning formula.

I think that you only gain diplomatic favor point if you are the good guy. If you declare war on each one of your neighbours your not going to be very popular among them and therefore you will not receive points. So I think that prevents the aggressive snowballer strategy.

 

[acluewithout]

I guess? What were the ideologies, though, really? Seems to me like basically governments with different policy cards on them. I suppose there could be more gov-exclusive cards and it would be about the same thing.

You could use Legacy Cards to give later era governments (Ideologies ) more unique options. You could link loyalty to cultural output (tourists) and then add +/- modifiers based on who has the same or different ideologies. You could link Ideologies to grievances or diplomatic favour or whatever they’ve doing now. You could give different ideologies different criteria for era score - so Facists get era from capturing cities but Democracies get it from great people. You could make it much harder to swap from one sort of government to another to emphasise Ideologies changing culture.

Honestly. Having a pretty rich game around Ideologies doesn’t seem that hard to do.

 

[Proclo]

Wonder how all of this will work for Alexander? Will he get no grievances from other leaders when starting wars? He probably won't give out grievances either if other people are going to go to war. Seems like Macedon is going to be fun on the world diplomatic stage.

I don't think war weariness has been removed from the game... any proof on the contrary?

 

[WillowBrook]

They also didn't have leader DLC before V. It's unlikely but possible that they change their model and go the Paradox route. Keep making DLC and add to the game instead of making sequels.
Corporations and ideologies are the only old features that are still missing and with the World Congress and resource rework they would fit nicely into the game.

Vassels, civil wars, and colonies have also been in previous versions of civ in various forms. While I would love to get a third expansion with eight more civs and all these features and an economic victory, I suspect this will be the end for civ 6.

I don't think, we will get new intermediate units to flesh out the current unit progression this time.
Unless of course threre are more than the two "neccesary" unit lines without future upgrades.

I doubt there will be a future unit for most of the military lines. Maybe five or six, but I suspect we'll get a handful of earlier units to fill in some gaps earlier in the tech tree (like an explorer between scout and ranger, a late-medieval/early renaissance light cav, and/or something between knights and tanks)

Side note: are earthquakes a thing? They probably should be if they are adding volcanoes...

I've seen nothing official about earthquakes, although I haven't scoured official sources. But I don't see a simple way to provide a benefit to counter the earthquake's destruction.