Gay Marriage - Yay!, or NEIGH?

[WillJ]

First of all, I wish to point out that I believe gays deserve equality.

But no marriage and let me say why.. Marriage comes from religion, and in western states it's generally from the bible.

Marriage is not about tax returns, Marriage is not about adoption, and Marriage is not about increased social security. These things are manufactured by the state as incentives to promote family values.

Those incentives don't work! They encourage people to get married when really, they are not yet ready for the commitment. Too many people are getting married for the perks, which inevitably leads to divorse. All bad stuff.

So, back to gays.

Gay people deserve the same crappy incentives offered to heterosexuals, which should be $0 but for as long as it's not $0 then gays should get the $$$ incentives.

That does not mean gays should be getting married because, as already pointed out, marriage comes from the bible and means something completely independent of $$$ incentives.

Gay marriage undermines the a fundamental concepts in out western culture, tradition, society and religion.

Not this again. (No offense.)

Marriage comes from the Bible? What in the world? I think you mispoke, and I'll just assume that what you meant to say is that the majority of marriages in the Western world are tied in one way or another to the Bible. [Edit: I reread your post and that does seem to be what you said, so never mind about that.]

So then are you okay with gays getting married if they do so in a church (or other house of worship) that condones it? Quite a few churches do so, so unless you have some sort of reason I have yet to hear, you shouldn't be so fundamentally opposed to gay marriage.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Quhat? Second person to admit error in the same thread? What's CFC OT coming to?

 

[The Yankee]

I must admit that i did not read on after reading that, and posted right away. After reading on I find that the argument is flawed and i humbley retract my previous statement. *bows out*:suicide:

Don't shoot yourself over it....it's rather admirable to say such a thing. Come on, have a beer!

 

[Armydude]

Don't shoot yourself over it....it's rather admirable to say such a thing. Come on, have a beer!

 

[Knowze Gungk]

I don't think it's a question of whether people agree with gay marriages or not, oppinions on the matter are irrelevant. The question is; how does Two people I don't know, of the same sex, getting married, effect me?

Find a non-psychosomatic answer for that question, & you may not come accross as some busy-body cultist, bent on pushing ancient & obsolete cult laws & rituals into a society that does not want or need them.

 

[The Last Conformist]

@Knowze GungK: If homosexuals get marriage tax benefits, state revenue falls, and the rest of us either get worse service or higher taxes.

 

[Milan's Warrior]

As a gay man, I am in favor of gay marriage (even if I have nobody to marry at this time).

@TheLastConformist: but the impact on tax revenues would be minimal (according to the census only 0.5% of americans are lgbt COUPLES). Of course that number could increase once marriage becomes legal everywhere.
Anyway, you can always increase tax revenues or decrese government spending, by arbitrarily excluding a group form benefits.

 

[Richard Cribb]

First of all, I wish to point out that I believe gays deserve equality.

But no marriage and let me say why.. Marriage comes from religion, and in western states it's generally from the bible.

Wrong. Here is how Encyclopædia Brittanica defines marriage:"Legally and socially sanctioned union, usually between a man and a woman, that is regulated by laws, rules, customs, beliefs, and attitudes that prescribe the rights and duties of the partners and accords status to their offspring (if any)".
If marriage was necessarily connected to religion, can you please explain me how I could marry twice without there even being a bible present at the ceremony? I can't remember having promised God anything...
It is of course true that the Bible mentions marriage, but in modern secular states religion doesn't need to be involved. But just divorce and you will feel the impact of the legal part...
As for the question, I support same-sex marriages, to me it is a question of equal rights. If that means a bit more taxation on geeks, so much the better.

Gay marriage undermines the a fundamental concepts in out western culture, tradition, society and religion.

Not necessarily a bad thing...

 

[Zcylen]

its an abomination!
It shouldnt be allowed

 

[shadowdude]

Neigh!

Ten characters

 

[Lonkut]

Its stupid to drag religion in the matter of gay marriage. I for one don't care if the homos get married as long as it doesn't affect me. But I am against gay adoptions.

 

[Ayatollah So]

Here's what my wife wrote to the paper on this issue.

A law which would institute a ban on gay marriage will appear on the Michigan ballot this November. Many of its sponsors say they receive their inspiration and justification from the Bible. In the Bible, among hundreds of profound, compassionate, sensible, or just plain mysterious rules, can be found the following:

Exodus 21:20-21: “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property”.

Exodus 31:14: “Observe the Sabbath because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people”.

Deuteronomy 21:20-21: [If a couple has a problem child], “They shall say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a spendthrift and a drunkard’. Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death.”

Deuteronomy 22:20-22 establishes the death penalty for adultery and female promiscuity.

The Bible is a complex book. Its meaning and interpretation have been discussed and debated by believers, including Jesus, for over 2,000 years. We no longer read Exodus 21 as sanctioning slavery, though that horrendous interpretation was self-evident to many Americans for centuries. We no longer accept blue laws that forbid certain activities on Sundays to Christians and non-Christians alike. After decades of acrimonious debate, divorce is legal in every state. Needless to say, we do not sentence people who have affairs to death. Why have we chosen gayness as deserving condemnation when we allow and expect hundreds of exceptions to other Biblical injunctions?

The Christian Bible encourages love, compassion, patience, mercy, forbearance, a non-judgmental attitude, gentleness, forgiveness, etc., much more often than it criticizes gayness or other sexual behavior. In my reading of the Bible, God clearly does not want His people to be divided or bitter with one another. What are the fruits of the current arguments over the gay marriage ban? Has the need for new legislation long been a pressing issue or did it just become urgent in this election cycle? Who has brought this forward, at this time, and why? Thoughtful and faithful discernment is needed to decide this issue.

 

[Cuivienen]

But I am against gay adoptions.

Could I ask why?

 

[stormbind]

Marriage comes from the Bible? What in the world?

Too many marriages today are out of convenience, for the tax break. Two people like each other, they want to save some money... they think it's a good idea. And after a delay, they divorse!

For me, and I don't care what anybody else thinks about it, marriage is a spiritual thing. I couldn't care less about the pathetic tax breaks, and I don't think much of those people who marry for them.

So why do you think people marry? Is it to claim benefits from government, or is it because the couple feels they are sharing something sacred?

I would support abolishing the former. It would put an end to this ridiculous debate, and prevent most of the farcical doomed "marriages" we see each year.

 

[stormbind]

@Ayatollah So

I cannot speak for all Christians, but I believe in what Jesus said. The Old Testament (inc. Exodus & Deuteronomy) is largely ignored, and I worry about the Jews who emphasise those texts.

 

[King Alexander]

I think, marriage is made because 2 people want to devote themselves to each other and be faithful to each other in every way(and I don't say this from a religious point of view; I don't know many couples who would "allow" their partner to have relationships with 3rd persons. We're talking about commitment here, not for searching-for-sex-opportunities only).
And yes, the second part of a marriage is that one thinks that one day he can have children with the man/woman that he chosed to share his life - be a part of a family.

I would like to hear the reasons that gays/lesbians want to be married( the "right to marriage" is not enough reason for me to approve, just to only have the right that is):
If they feel that marriage is the best way to avoid to be "cheated" from their partner, I'd be positive for them to get married, but I also know couples(heterosexual or homosexual) that are together MANY years without be married(some, even have children) and they're quite happy with their lives(and of course, that depends a lot on the character of each person, not to cheat that is if he's serious about commitment).

Of course, if such a law passes everywhere, there are other issues that would be raised after a while: should they have the right to adopt children if they wanted to, and the discussion continues...

 

[Lonkut]

Could I ask why?

Because it ruins the kids psychologicaly. They think its okey to kiss another man or woman. To dress like gays. No mother or father figure. They will be confused. I don't think I can explain it so others can understand. Without a mother or father figure they will mess up the roles when they or if they become parents. Each individual receives lessons from both mother and father when one is missing the balance is messed up. Stuff like that.

 

[Stapel]

First of all, I wish to point out that I believe gays deserve equality.

But no marriage and let me say why.. Marriage comes from religion, and in western states it's generally from the bible.

This is great nonsense. The concept of marriage was known here before the bible was introduced.

The idea that marriage comes from religion is a lie, invented by those who want to surpress their religion to others. Marriage is a legal thing. It is in your passport! It has tax advantages. It has nothing to do officially with religion. If religious people want to give more/other meanings to marriage it is there business, but officially marriage is a 100% legal matter. A legal contract between two adults.

Here in NL, only the municipal government can conduct a marriage. It truely is a strictly legal thing. The simple fact that about half of the couples go to church right after the documents are signed, to receive a blessing of their marriage by the religious leader of their choice, doesn't change that.

 

[Stapel]

Too many marriages today are out of convenience, for the tax break. Two people like each other, they want to save some money... they think it's a good idea. And after a delay, they divorse!

For me, and I don't care what anybody else thinks about it, marriage is a spiritual thing. I couldn't care less about the pathetic tax breaks, and I don't think much of those people who marry for them.

So why do you think people marry? Is it to claim benefits from government, or is it because the couple feels they are sharing something sacred?

I would support abolishing the former. It would put an end to this ridiculous debate, and prevent most of the farcical doomed "marriages" we see each year.

Which is pretty much growing to happen here, in a more or less unofficial way.

I think around 50% of all couples get their first child before they get married. Later when they sort stuff out, it appears being married has some legal advantages, so the do get married.

One of the biggest issues here in NL is that our laws do not know such a thing as 'biological father'. The father of a child is a legal entity, and the man married to the woman the day she gives birth is the legal father by definition. Unmarried couples, getting a kid, have to go through quite some annoying paperwork in order to make the father the official father.

My father and his 2nd wife got married (in 1983) 3 weeks before my (half-)brother was born, simply for this reason. No party, no church, no invitations. He simply called me the day after to inform me!