General A New Dawn discussion
- Thread starter Rezca
- Start date
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Do you know how fixed borders works? It's not yet explained properly in Pedia but it's been explained many times in the forum. Without fixed borders, whoever has majority of culture on a tile, owns it. With fixed borders, you need to have twice the culture of your opponent. So borders are not really fixed, just harder to move. The only way to keep a tile with fixed borders no matter the culture pressure, is putting a unit on it. That tile won't then change ownership no matter the culture ratio.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Or maybe we should simply add a description in civilopedia, or better update the current one. We would have to do it anyway.
I'll do it in my next update, I'm currently working on research cost / Flexible difficulty so I think I need some days.45°38'N-13°47'E;13791133 said:
I watched it, when only one civ has fixed borders it will flip at 2 times the culture, as it should. But if both civs have fixed borders, it will flip as soon as the other has more culture instead of waiting till 2x, just like it does if neither side had fixed borders.
So I went and checked the code and found why it does that.
Code:
PlayerTypes CvPlot::calculateCulturalOwner(bool bIgnoreClaimedTerritory) const
{
....
if (getOwnerINLINE() != NO_PLAYER && GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).isAlive())
{
if (GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).hasFixedBorders())
{
if (!bIgnoreClaimedTerritory)
{
//Can not steal land from other, more dominant fixed border civilization
bool bValidCulture = true;
[COLOR="Red"]if (eBestPlayer != NO_PLAYER && getOwnerINLINE() != eBestPlayer)
{
bValidCulture = !GET_PLAYER(eBestPlayer).hasFixedBorders();
}
[/COLOR]
// Koshling - changed Fixed Borders to not unconditionally hold territory, but only
// to hold it against a natural owner with less than twice the FB player's culture
if ([COLOR="Red"]bValidCulture &&[/COLOR]
getCulture(getOwnerINLINE()) > iBestCulture / 2 &&
(isWithinCultureRange(getOwnerINLINE()) || isWithinOccupationRange(getOwnerINLINE())))
{
return getOwnerINLINE();
}The red part effectively disables fixed borders if both civs have it enabled, which means it will never get the chance to check if the other civ has x2 culture.
It shouldn't do that, it should still require double culture before it flips even if both civs have fixed borders.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Mmm, looking at the code, I'd say this is intentional. I've never noticed before but it looks ok to me to tell the truth. Fixed Borders should prevent tiles being stealed by other civs without fixed borders using culture, or at least make it harder. If both civs have fixed borders, it doesn't look too wrong to me that their effects are neglecting each other.
45°38'N-13°47'E;13792023 said:
It would be more realistic if it were still waiting for double culture when both civs have fixed borders. Whoever gets the tile first and has fixed borders should be able to hold on to it for longer than normal. Otherwise it makes fixed borders useless as soon as everyone runs Monarchy, which happens around classical/medieval.
In the modern world you don't see borders shifting either as soon as a different culture becomes the majority. I'd remove that bValidCulture part, the /2 part still makes sure that you can't hold on to it for too long if your culture becomes weak.
os79
Deity
I think it's cool the way it is after 45` describe it because Fixed Borders should be considered as one of upside of Civic that provides it. Then when both civs have it, the game is back on track basically. Do I get that right, 45`?
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
That's the way it works and I'm OK with that. We could consider changing the code if other team members think it's necessary. What I'm not 100% sure is that we don't break something else with that change. Basically I'm for the "Don't fix it if it's not broken" rule.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Wow. With unhappiness from capital distance, the game sure is different. Sadly, AI can't really handle it as the 1 pop German cities show.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Actually AI has always been programmed to deal with it. Where do you see this problem? In my test games I see no problem with AI development.
It really has changed the game. Is there anyway to ameliorate it? I notice the apadana palace does not, do any of the distance maintenance buildings? It seems now impossible to create a colony, in a map with a new world for example.
zeroRPGmaker
Chieftain
You guys are off topic lol.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
It might seem, but it's not believe me. There's even too much happiness in the game, you just have to try a bit harder. If it's too difficult for you, consider lowering your handicap level.
Anyway no, at the moment there's no building or wonder decreasing unhappiness from distance (as there is none for unhappiness caused by civ size), and I don't really think it's necessary. As I've said, there's plenty of happiness resources in the game, not to mention that unhappiness from distance decreases with eras.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
45°38'N-13°47'E;13792571 said:
Well my original idea was to this unhappiness from distance be affected by the Summer Palace and so wonders. By the time your empire is big enough to consider building a Summer Palace you will also have a lot of cities too --> lots of unhappiness from number of cities.
I also feel that the distance penalty should only appear only above a 4 tiles distance, so it wouldn't harm early expansion.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
From what I get, in order for them to spot it, one of the two boats have to be within your ships Line of Sight - either it ends its turn by yours, or you bumble upon it by accident.
I've had a great many times where a stealth ship would go right past my anti-stealth sentries, pillage happily or sink a ship, and then move away to where the sentries that can spot stealthed units can't see it, so you'd need a lot of them scattered about to keep them from sneaking by and doing their thing. If they pillage or sink other ships but pass on by your anti-stealth ship, they get to stay invisible as long as they didn't end their turn within its LoS.
Good thing their strength is pretty low, otherwise they'd be very annoying
I wonder if it was possible and worthwhile to indicate somehow the last visible route of seen stealth units. I think of something like dots-and-arrow you see when pressing Alt-G.
Spoiler :
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
I wonder if it was possible and worthwhile to indicate somehow the last visible route of seen stealth units. I think of something like dots-and-arrow you see when pressing Alt-G.
Spoiler :
Which might get visually messy in a hurry, depending on how many stealthed units are running around.
There could be a "Once spotted, they remain visible until the end of the turn" thing in place too....
Aaah Sulla's Civ4 guide, the reason I'm here today playing Civilization
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Sure, if there are a lot of them in a small area scattered around.
To further this idea: Their tracks should be removed once they are in LoS again.
I believe that would be too exploitable.
Though much easier for the devs to do, I guess
I would be happy with either solutions
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
I pay Cleopatra to declare war on Genghis after he declares on me, paying a tech in return.
I hit end turn, and the game announces that Cleo made peace with Genghis. What.
Many turns later, she and I have a Defensive Pact. Darius declares war on me and as a result she declares war on him.
I hit end turn, and the game announces that Cleo made peace with Darius.
That was actually the seventh time this game that an AI declared on someone but made peace the very next turn - without using a Great Diplomat.
Some of them were running Interventionism, but others were still using Isolationism or even Imperium. I hate how the AI can do that, and I think it's bordering unfair/broken that Interventionism allows you to do that. It even gave me the option to make Peace the very same turn that Darius declared on me. I don't think you should be able to do that.
I hit end turn, and the game announces that Cleo made peace with Genghis. What.
Many turns later, she and I have a Defensive Pact. Darius declares war on me and as a result she declares war on him.
I hit end turn, and the game announces that Cleo made peace with Darius.
That was actually the seventh time this game that an AI declared on someone but made peace the very next turn - without using a Great Diplomat.
Some of them were running Interventionism, but others were still using Isolationism or even Imperium. I hate how the AI can do that, and I think it's bordering unfair/broken that Interventionism allows you to do that. It even gave me the option to make Peace the very same turn that Darius declared on me. I don't think you should be able to do that.
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