Afforess
The White Wizard
Is alcohol really useful as a resource either? I never saw the point of it myself.
General A New Dawn discussion
- Thread starter Rezca
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Maybe to make Ethanol for later in the game? 
I rarely build the brewery as it is anyway.
JosEPh
I rarely build the brewery as it is anyway.
JosEPh
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
The Brewery, to put it in terms of 'Realism', alleviates the misery of peoples mundane existence, so it gives +1 
along with the +1
In game play terms, it gives an early happy resource, and ill health to offset the early surplus of health.
I build it all the time, +1 when your at its limit, is helpful.
along with the +1In game play terms, it gives an early happy resource, and ill health to offset the early surplus of health.
I build it all the time, +1
when your at its limit, is helpful.
Is it serious you guys never seemed how incredible the Brewery is? It was one of the first things I saw on AND that truly amazed me (after Fixed Borders, New Forts and mechanic units for selling).
1st - +1. This is always nice and useful because a 
citizen doesn't work, while a city has all its citizens working with a penalty on food (which is easily compensated). Great change.
2nd - Diplomatic Advantage. With 3 (up to 9) new resources you may exchange them with people. Useless surplus resources for you are great ways of strengthening the ties between nations. In my Iroquois game I have some useless trades with the Byzantine just to improve our friendship, while I make my vassals more miserable by the time. The Ottomans (my vassal) had to give me their rice because I wanted it. This made they stop having Alcohol, so now I could give them alcohol for something. If you use spies you may destroy someone's resources that are needed to make Alcohol, so then you may sell your alcohol to then. Alcohol is another great asset of AND.
1st - +1
. This is always nice and useful because a citizen doesn't work, while a city has all its citizens working with a penalty on food (which is easily compensated). Great change.2nd - Diplomatic Advantage. With 3 (up to 9) new resources you may exchange them with people. Useless surplus resources for you are great ways of strengthening the ties between nations. In my Iroquois game I have some useless trades with the Byzantine just to improve our friendship, while I make my vassals more miserable by the time. The Ottomans (my vassal) had to give me their rice because I wanted it. This made they stop having Alcohol, so now I could give them alcohol for something. If you use spies you may destroy someone's resources that are needed to make Alcohol, so then you may sell your alcohol to then. Alcohol is another great asset of AND.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Is it serious you guys never seemed how incredible the Brewery is? It was one of the first things I saw on AND that truly amazed me (after Fixed Borders, New Forts and mechanic units for selling).
1st - +1
2nd - Diplomatic Advantage. With 3 (up to 9) new resources you may exchange them with people. Useless surplus resources for you are great ways of strengthening the ties between nations. In my Iroquois game I have some useless trades with the Byzantine just to improve our friendship, while I make my vassals more miserable by the time. The Ottomans (my vassal) had to give me their rice because I wanted it. This made they stop having Alcohol, so now I could give them alcohol for something. If you use spies you may destroy someone's resources that are needed to make Alcohol, so then you may sell your alcohol to then. Alcohol is another great asset of AND.
Exploiting AI behavior for a constructable resource does not strike me as "useful". If anything, you have made my case for me.
This is not exploiting AI behavior. Where did you get this from? I'm giving them , while they give me something useful. To vassals I agree, but that's the whole purpose with them I believe. If it wasn't, you wouldn't let me not only ask for any resources they have but also to demand it with a single click command.
What sometimes happen that is kind of a benefit to me (but should be an option if the AI wasn't so dumb) is getting a resource in a tarde that I know I'll get in the near future. I think the Byzantine give me 1 alcohol for fish, and I did that some time before getting my alcohols. Now I have 1 alcohol I can't trade because it isn't mine, and all my Alcohols to trade because I have one extra from a trade. If I already had alcohol, the AI would never let me buy it from them (which is stupid TBH), only if I had a corp using the resource.
But if you believe removing a player's access to a resource with a spy is exploiting the AI, then you truly haven't enjoyed this game enough, and lack some examples from history. I can't believe this can be considered something unfair. So why a espionage mission to destroy an improvement? To only use against declared enemies? For them I can move my army and pillage (which gives XP).
I think Alcohol, as all other resources that are generated from buildings/wonders are great assets of the game and enhance the gameplay and immersion of the game.
, while they give me something useful. To vassals I agree, but that's the whole purpose with them I believe. If it wasn't, you wouldn't let me not only ask for any resources they have but also to demand it with a single click command.What sometimes happen that is kind of a benefit to me (but should be an option if the AI wasn't so dumb) is getting a resource in a tarde that I know I'll get in the near future. I think the Byzantine give me 1 alcohol for fish, and I did that some time before getting my alcohols. Now I have 1 alcohol I can't trade because it isn't mine, and all my Alcohols to trade because I have one extra from a trade. If I already had alcohol, the AI would never let me buy it from them (which is stupid TBH), only if I had a corp using the resource.
But if you believe removing a player's access to a resource with a spy is exploiting the AI, then you truly haven't enjoyed this game enough, and lack some examples from history. I can't believe this can be considered something unfair. So why a espionage mission to destroy an improvement? To only use against declared enemies? For them I can move my army and pillage (which gives XP).
I think Alcohol, as all other resources that are generated from buildings/wonders are great assets of the game and enhance the gameplay and immersion of the game.
Afforess
The White Wizard
What I believe is exploitation was not the spy stuff, but the fact that AIs will gladly buy a useless resource. Alcohol is almost completely useless (there are already too many +1 happy sources)
There is always a way to make
useful. It's not useless by far. Slavery is a great combo with anything that provides happiness, specially Monarchy.With a civic that gives
by troops, having a resource is a good relief to your troops. When I said it was useless, I was referring it was useless to me as a surplus resource (no corps benefitting from it)
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
I've had times when the AI will spend large amounts to get a resource that has low use (I see unhealthy cities more often than unhappy ones except during prolonged wars, so Alcohol is generally low on the 'usefulness' scale for me. I build the brewery for the Merchant slot
) but I've also had times when they refused to buy a resource that is indeed useless for them, like Oil or Uranium before they are capable of actually using it, like not having the tech to build Oil Power Plants or Oil-enabled units.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
There is always a way to make
I believe he's referring to the abundance of Happiness sources, so resources that simply add more to that without providing other effects are 'less useful'.
Well I don't know exactly how you play, but I always want more Happiness Resources in my 2 games (Emperor Iroquois, Deity Spain). I always have room for them. In both I'm already using Monarchy because it's god damn incredible to have unlimited happiness with troops.
Maybe the problem with 'many happiness resources' comes from Mapscript? I always play on Gigantic and on Perfect World, Perfect Mongoose or Totestra (Spain is Mongoose, Iroquois is World), and on these happiness resources are scarce. Maybe they have a good number of variety, but they appear a lot less then Health Resources. And I couldn't play after the renaissance yet, so maybe it's restricted to this time. But the happiness from alcohol is a great advantage to me in these games.
Maybe the problem with 'many happiness resources' comes from Mapscript? I always play on Gigantic and on Perfect World, Perfect Mongoose or Totestra (Spain is Mongoose, Iroquois is World), and on these happiness resources are scarce. Maybe they have a good number of variety, but they appear a lot less then Health Resources. And I couldn't play after the renaissance yet, so maybe it's restricted to this time. But the happiness from alcohol is a great advantage to me in these games.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
This is not exploiting AI behavior. Where did you get this from? I'm giving them
What sometimes happen that is kind of a benefit to me (but should be an option if the AI wasn't so dumb) is getting a resource in a tarde that I know I'll get in the near future. I think the Byzantine give me 1 alcohol for fish, and I did that some time before getting my alcohols. Now I have 1 alcohol I can't trade because it isn't mine, and all my Alcohols to trade because I have one extra from a trade. If I already had alcohol, the AI would never let me buy it from them (which is stupid TBH), only if I had a corp using the resource.
But if you believe removing a player's access to a resource with a spy is exploiting the AI, then you truly haven't enjoyed this game enough, and lack some examples from history. I can't believe this can be considered something unfair. So why a espionage mission to destroy an improvement? To only use against declared enemies? For them I can move my army and pillage (which gives XP).
I think Alcohol, as all other resources that are generated from buildings/wonders are great assets of the game and enhance the gameplay and immersion of the game.
+1
Such an anty-alcoholist as I am - who never been drunk - I still want to protect alcohol
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
I've got a question - is it possible to program a diplomatic option, through which vassals could be liberated during wartime?
darkedone02
The Suggestor
My small issue with Resources in general is that I don't visually see a great benefit for having more of the same resources unless it's for accelerating or benefiting extra productions points. I wish there was more benefits for having more resources besides increasing your treasury. It be nice if we have buildings that require more of the same resources, such as for example, I can't make a bronze smithy unless I have (3) copper ore resources and (2) tin ore ore resources. Stuff like this makes having more then one of the same resources seems useful to help grow your empire.
Now for constructable resources like cement, chemicals, beer, and the others... I don't see the point on why i need to construct more then 1 when the bonuses don't stack for having completely built all 3 of the national wonders... without unlimited wonders, all my cities be full until I have one that obsoleted.
Now for constructable resources like cement, chemicals, beer, and the others... I don't see the point on why i need to construct more then 1 when the bonuses don't stack for having completely built all 3 of the national wonders... without unlimited wonders, all my cities be full until I have one that obsoleted.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Use resource depletion and you'll see why you need more than one resource per type
@darkedone02
Also surplus resources may be used for diplomatic advantages. You may get +DiploPoints with someone and with this you make the AI need you more (less chances of it joining in a war against you).
With Buffer Zone vassals you may even give them the resources you want to make them stronger (Stronger Buffer Zones mean less chances of losign your vassal and letting the enemy cross and get on your territory).
Of course none of this is truly good if you play with few AIs forever in relatively resource-balanced or big maps.
Another tip for Vassals: Get all their resources and give them several resources you have a lot (glassware and alcohol are 2 good examples, some water resources normally fit in that too). This way you get a lot of DiploPoints, and friend vassals have more chances of asking to become a part of your empire (I think, never checked the code for it but many games showed me that with this mechanic).
Also surplus resources may be used for diplomatic advantages. You may get +DiploPoints with someone and with this you make the AI need you more (less chances of it joining in a war against you).
With Buffer Zone vassals you may even give them the resources you want to make them stronger (Stronger Buffer Zones mean less chances of losign your vassal and letting the enemy cross and get on your territory).
Of course none of this is truly good if you play with few AIs forever in relatively resource-balanced or big maps.
Another tip for Vassals: Get all their resources and give them several resources you have a lot (glassware and alcohol are 2 good examples, some water resources normally fit in that too). This way you get a lot of DiploPoints, and friend vassals have more chances of asking to become a part of your empire (I think, never checked the code for it but many games showed me that with this mechanic).
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Vassals can become part of your empire voluntarily? Like, you get a certain +relations with them and their cities become part of your empire?
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