General Forum Office of Domestic Policy

[Memphus]

For Those of you who have the game you can play it from here:

Now I havn't brought the map fully up to speed with our current game yet but you can still simulate the Captial and reasearch and such.

If you think you can get the CS slingshot faster than 1360 B.C. Let me know

Oh Yeah feel free to go into the world builder and add 50 Gp as I havn't done that yet either (makes a difference once city #2 is founded)

Also I just fortify our warriors, as my main concern is the Domestic side of things

 

[DaveMcW]

Thanks for setting this up!

By building an academy instead of a settler I got the CS slingshot 3 turns earlier, in 1480 BC. I don't think 3 turns is worth delaying our settler.

By building oracle, settler I got the Metal Casting slingshot 10 turns earlier, in 1760BC. This is a very safe bet to deny the oracle to other teams and found confucianism ourselves. But with a slightly delayed settler and no CS this is a rather boring play.

 

[gbno1fan]

How many turns until the next Warrior is trained and in need of a name?

 

[Memphus]

Umm I believe it is 2 turns away (one after DaveMcW plays tonight )

If you look in the Turns orders for the doemstic Office it will have the Turn the warriro is complete

 

[Memphus]

Alright thinking cap time:

10 turns to go, what do we want to build in our new city?

This will no doubt be another research center (unless we want it to be our GP farm, but personally I think reasearch)

It will be working the flood plain tile +3 +1

We are in need of a lot of things:

Warriors, to scout as well as begin setting up a bard net (line of sight)

Worker, this city needs someone to improve it (although I suggest Peter Grimes stolls on down after he completes the second / third cottage at our capital as there is no point improving the land if the city can't grow , And the our captial can build a new worker alongs with settlers as its growth will be stalled

Library, for border expansion (no wait scratch that it will be a holy city!! ) as well as research in the city

 

[DaveMcW]

In the long run I think we should build a granary and pop rush things like workers and libraries. But in the short run we desperately need warriors.

 

[peter grimes]

Warriors, to scout as well as begin setting up a bard net (line of sight)

What is a bard net?... Did you mean barb net? And, excuse my ignorance (I dont' have cIV), but when you mention Line of Sight, are you referring to the Holy City thingy, or just being able to see approaching barbs and explorers?

 

[lost_civantares]

Just being able to see apoaching barbs, that way we can prepare, and have less of a zone to be able to pop up in and be immeaditly zoneing in for us and our improvements.

 

[Memphus]

5 Turns to go, (Well 8 including settler movement)


So Far it looks like the choice is between

Warrior
Granary

Let's not forget that in ~12 turns from when the city is founded *when* we pull of the CS slingshot, our capital will be able to produce 1 turn warriors (well almost )

So maybe we should lean towards a Granary?

However lets not forget that barbarians will be appearing very shortly

 

[lost_civantares]

How long would the warrior take?

If it isn't that long we should be able to do it where we just start building a warrior when we see a barb on our cultural border.

 

[DaveMcW]

Where do we want our great scientist to pop? Capital or second city?

 

[peter grimes]

What are the consequences for each city?

Does it draw down population, therefore slowing down our growth if popped from Eridani?

Or is earlier better, therefore potentially less advantageous if popped from Second City?

 

[lost_civantares]

How much change in the odds will there be for popping a Great Scientist if we pop it in the same city as where we build the Oracle?

 

[DaveMcW]

Oracle = Great Prophet in 50 turns
1 Scientist = Great Scientist in 34 turns
2 Scientists = Great Scientist in 17 turns
2 Scientists + Oracle = Great Scientist in 13 turns (66% chance)

We sacrifice the production of 2 citizens (12 in the capital, 8 in 2nd city) to run the scientists.

If we get a Great Prophet, the price doubles for the next Great Scientist. We eventually need a prophet anyway, but a scientist is better right now.

So it's a choice between:
156 for an academy in 13 turns (capital).
136 for an academy in ~49 turns (2nd city).
272 for an academy in 50+ turns (3rd city).

 

[peter grimes]

put that way, it seems that the first choice is the way to go... what's the downside again?

 

[DaveMcW]

The downside is we could be building warriors and settlers with that 156. We can slightly reduce the opportunity cost (and improve the 66%) by running scientists before the oracle is completed.

 

[Kylearan]

I'd rather delay a great person/pollute the GP pool than delay building settlers. Earlier cities outweigh the effect of an earlier academy/shrine IMO.

-Kylearan

 

[DaveMcW]

Memphus, are you planning to do any forest chopping / scientist hiring to speed up the CS slingshot?

 

[Memphus]

Memphus, are you planning to do any forest chopping / scientist hiring to speed up the CS slingshot?

That is correct
I don't have it with me at work but I believe the fastest way to the CS sling was to build 1 more cottage and then chop 1 forest, but in the meantime it also meant hiring a Scientist from the mines

Off the top of my head I think it was:

Run A Scientist starting right away (from the mine) and alternate with the rice (a 2 on 1 off so we never starve)
As soon as the cottage is done then run 3 FP's and both miens while choppingthe forest

Because as soon as cottage #3 is finished that tile is *better* than a Scientist as it gives +3 so we can run both mines.

I will rerun the simulation tonight as the crunch is approaching. Ultimately if anyone can do it faster now that the settler will be produced, by all means please share as every turn sooner increases our odds.

BTW I also noticed that last turn someones production is up to 12 per turn

 

[Memphus]

Ok we are at a key turn for our worker and our build order discussion:

Basically we have 2 options

1. Go make a 3rd cottage and then chop a forest

2. Go chop 1 forest and then a second forest.

Either option gets us the CS sling shot in 1360 B.C.

I won't go into the nitty gritty technical of how it works but basically as soon as we chop forest one we get an unhealthy penalty, as well as when we do a third cottage it is basically like having a scientist but with the added bonus of +3 but -3 gp points.

However here are the main difference:

1. We get 1 extra cottage built, we have 1 extra forest left over, 1 road built towards our new city

2. We have 15 more GP points (30 instead of 15), we have 2 roads built towards our new city

**Side note when we build city 2 we don't actually get a trade route as we don't know fishing


I will leave this up for 7 hours until we have to play the save and then I will make a call and play it if Dave isn't around!

Please comment quickly!