GeneralMatt's Creation Thread

[Gaius Octavius]

I know it ended on September 2, 1945 (I've studied history!) but the official battle records for deaths occurring in combat ended much later, as I said. Also, since we're dealing here with a game it should also be noted that this ship might be used in a mod like WW2 1939 which deals with the postwar climate.

Good grief... only Wolfshanze would pick up on something that small.


EDIT: Here it is:
http://www.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_16.html
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/american war casualty.htm

Table 1--UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES TOTAL STRENGTH AND CASUALTIES
IN WORLD WAR II, DEC. 7, 1941-DEC. 31, 1946

Service--Total strength--Battle deaths--Deaths from other causes--Wounds(1)--Captured or missing
Army(2) 11,260,000 234,874 83,400 565,861 135,524
Navy 4,183,466 36,950 25,664 37,778 2,429
Marine Corps 669,100 19,733 4,778 67,207 1,756
Coast Guard 241,093 574 1,345 955
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 16,353,659 292,131 115,187 671,801 139,709

(1) Not mortal. (2) Includes Army Air Forces.

Now, obviously nobody in their right mind would claim that the war itself went on that long, but you could use this to "cram" in the Midway.

Anyways, there's an interesting historical aspect to this. According to wikianswers (which I presume is fairly reliable in this case):

Our military, and our Merchant Marine and Army Air Forces in particular, had substantial transportation functions to perform after August 15, 1945 (Japanese surrender). These functions involved shipment of equipment, food and other items to the war-torn nations. These shipping functions exposed military personnel to sea mines, land mines, snipers, transportation accidents and other residual dangers and resulted in additional American casualties. Veterans who served after August 15, 1945, sought benefits as World War II veterans. Eventually, Congress and President Truman agreed and benefits were afforded to anyone serving between August 15, 1945 and December 31, 1946. On that day, however, President Truman declared an end to "the hostilities of World War II," the date that officially ended our servicemembers' entitlements to World War II veterans status.

Hence, I suppose you could use this to make the argument that anybody who subsequently served on the Midway would be entitled to WWII benefits. Thus, it's not too much of a stretch to say that it was a World War II ship. Apparently it's not too stupid to comment on after all.

Anyway, I did not know about all that; it's a most interesting read!

 

[Wolfshanze]

I know you're not trying to justify that the war ended after September 2nd, 1945... are you really trying to find research to support a cause saying the war wasn't over on September 2nd?

Really now...

 

[Gaius Octavius]

I'm just saying that excluding the Midway (or a host of other ships) as a non-WWII ship is not quite fair.

It would be sort of like saying the Arizona is not really a WWII ship because it "didn't stay around for too long." There might be some of us who'd want to explore alternatives such as, oh, I don't know, what if the Arizona had been transferred to the Atlantic before Pearl Harbor and lasted well into the war, finally being retired in favor of an Iowa battleship?

 

[Wolfshanze]

I'm just saying that excluding the Midway (or a host of other ships) as a non-WWII ship is not quite fair.

It would be sort of like saying the Arizona is not really a WWII ship because it "didn't stay around for too long." There might be some of us who'd want to explore alternatives such as, oh, I don't know, what if the Arizona had been transferred to the Atlantic before Pearl Harbor and lasted well into the war, finally being retired in favor of an Iowa battleship?

I already covered that in Pacific Generals "Clash of Eagles". Transfered to the Atlantic fleet and all.

Of course the Arizona was AVAILABLE at the START of WWII... the Midway was available after the war had already ended. That's a big differance.

I'm just saying it's really hard to transfer a ship that doesn't exist yet.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

But if the war had continued... Oh... I'm washing my hands of the whole matter.

Seriously, we're debating the validity of a series of very bad puns! Let's get back to hounding GM to make more units.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Seriously, we're debating the validity of a series of very bad puns! Let's get back to hounding GM to make more units.

Quite right...

Now what we really need are more Pre-Dreadnoughts... because if Matt were Majestic enough to make some more of them, then Mikasa is your casa.

 

[GeneralMatt]

Actually, all of my ships did serve in WWII...

Found them all on this list.

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-aContents.htm#chrono

Anyways, the Canopus, hmm, I really would like to! Though if I ever did all the WWII ones, it would be one of each class, not like two of the same.

Anyways, I have some other stuff to model first either way..

 

[Wolfshanze]

Anyways, the Canopus, hmm, I really would like to! Though if I ever did all the WWII ones, it would be one of each class, not like two of the same.

A Canopus revisit would be nice (compare it with your earlier Canopus too!)... or a Majestic... but what would be really cool, a Japanese Pre-Dreadnought like the Mikasa... so we can kill more Russian Pre-Dreadnoughts! Getting info/pictures/stats of the Mikasa would be about as easy as pie... I think it's the only Pre-Dreadnought still around today... it's still hanging around in Japan, so there's a bajillion photos of it.

On WWII ships, I'd be careful trying to do a ship of every class of one navy... at least unless you're going to bounce around one navy at a time... doing like eight US Battleship classes in a row would be way too redundant without covering any other navies... though if you want to start with American Battleships, I suggest the USS Iowa! (Hehe... BB-4).

 

[GeneralMatt]

Your silly.

And no, I would be starting with the Royal and Commonwealth Navies, then maybe the Americans...

Oh ye, lookie hear.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/britain/?g2_page=1

So I am divided, start in on the RN, the Arizona, the Canopus, the Wasp or a Modern Frigate.. (I want to do a Type 23). I really want to do the first option, but I know I have other commitments..

 

[RPG]

I say start on the RN.

 

[GeneralMatt]

Ok, cool. I will do the Arizona though, and see where that leads me. Thanks for saying the Wasp can hold for a while.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Your silly.

And no, I would be starting with the Royal and Commonwealth Navies, then maybe the Americans...

Got something against the Japs, eh? No Mikasa for me, no Mikasa for you... Mikasa isn't you casa.

Oh ye, lookie hear.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/britain/?g2_page=1

Yeah, and? There's a million links like that on the web...

So I am divided, start in on the RN, the Arizona, the Canopus, the Wasp or a Modern Frigate.. (I want to do a Type 23). I really want to do the first option, but I know I have other commitments..

By RN do you mean the entire WWII Royal Navy? Do you mean like eight differant battleship classes of the Royal Navy? Exactly what are we going to do with that in Civ4 terms?

I think it's fair to say most Civ4 modders use one "flavor" unit per unit per nation. 90% or more of the custom mods out there will have ONE Battleship (two if you count Dreadnoughts) per nation. Say... one German flavor battleship, one British flavor battleship, one American flavor battleship per mod... you get the idea. We've already got Hoods (remember that one?), Bismarcks, Iowas (remember that one too?)... etc, etc.

More choice is never a bad thing, but wasted talent/time is. What are we going to do with eight differant British Battleship classes when most modders use only one? In the meantime while you're making British battleship after British battleship, other nations like France, Russia & Italy have none, and most modders couldn't use more then one of what you make?!?!?! We already have an excellent HMS Hood model, it's entirely possible a lot of modders wouldn't have any use for anymore British battleships if they're happy using the HMS Hood as their only flavor BB for England.

I know I'm not going to ask you for the German Battleship Scharnhorst model, or any more German Pre-Dreadnought classes... we've already got the Bismarck and Brandenburg respectively, so I would consider German WWII Battleships and Pre-Dreadnoughts complied-with... let's move on to nations/classes not already covered.

I'm a big champion of doing a nation/class that has ZERO flavor units for it already (or none up to current standards).

An American, British or Japanese Pre-Dreadnought for-example... a Russian, French or Italian WWII Battleship... something in the American Dreadnought category... these are things we don't currently have.

I don't think we need any more Iowas or Hoods right now... not until other nations get covered with at least ONE model worth a darn per class!

A Canopus revisit would be sweet... I suppose the Arizona (though it's a Super Dreadnought and more akin to "yet another" WWII battleship)... I'd be a bigger fan of doing a regular American Dreadnought like the Florida class or something.

Eh... that's my 2-cents... if it's worth anything!

 

[GeneralMatt]

No, i won't be doing the whole RN, and least not all at once. What I mean is that in my last 5 or so ships, at least, none have been RN, which is close to my heart. So I want to do something British and WWII, a battleship or something..

Oh yes, sorry for not commenting on the Mikasa, yeah, that will certainly be something I will look into.
The hard part for me is balancing what I want to do with whatYou guys want me to do.. So as I have not done something for "me" in a while, I want to do a British ship or two for myself after the Arizona. Probably the Canopus and one of the WWII BB's..

 

[Wolfshanze]

The hard part for me is balancing what I want to do with whatYou guys want me to do.. So as I have not done something for "me" in a while, I want to do a British ship or two for myself after the Arizona. Probably the Canopus and one of the WWII BB's..

Well, in keeping with forum tradition... why don't you do the HMS Hood... we could sure use yet another one of those!

 

[GeneralMatt]

Well.. I think that is sufficiently covered, besides, I do not really look on her as a battleship in the true sense of the word..

I was thinking of the Warspite, always wanted to do her.. Canopus first though. Then I get back to the serious stuff.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Well.. I think that is sufficiently covered, besides, I do not really look on her as a battleship in the true sense of the word..

Neither did the Bismarck...

I was thinking of the Warspite, always wanted to do her.. Canopus first though. Then I get back to the serious stuff.

You mean Canopus followed by Queen Elizabeth class!

If you need Canopus stuff to get started, let me know.

 

[GeneralMatt]

Yah, QE class.

If you would find all the pictures you can as you did with the Brandenburg I would be very appreciative.
I am just starting the USS Arizona class, I hope she will slip into the waves in a few days.

Also, if you find more blueprints like this one tell me, they make nice textures..

http://www.german-navy.de/pics/hochseeflotte/worth.gif

Speaking of which..

http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/battleships/index.html

 

[Wolfshanze]

All you gotta do is ask...



HMS Canopus (1899)

HMS Canopus (1914)

USS Arizona (1941)

USS Arizona (1941)

HMS Warspite (QE class-1943)

 

[GeneralMatt]

Woo-hoo thank you. The hardest part for me (aside from some animations) is finding good images. I think you military guys have inside secrets.. (Like Smitty)

 

[snafusmith]

I think you military guys have inside secrets.. (Like Smitty)

I'd tell you, but I'd have to kill you after...