GeneralMatt's Creation Thread

Hooray! :cool: Might I suggest the King George V class after you do that? I do not believe I have seen any for Civ 4 yet.
Might I suggest that we already have the HMS Hood and the HMS Queen Elizabeth for WWII English Battleships and there's PLENTY more work for navies that have NOTHING before we go rushing-off doing a THIRD battleship for the same nation... why even America doesn't have three WWII Battleships (they just have two Iowas).

I'm all for the KGV... just later then sooner.
 
Actually, America does have three battleships... you forgot the USS Arizona that GeneralMatt did some time ago. :p
 
GO: That first image, Silent Hunter? It looks like something from it..

Hmm, we will see what is next, I am not sure. Most likely a sub or two.

Wolfshazne, if there was any Civ I would do Three BB's for it would be Great Britain, but at the moment she only has two Steel BB's, the Canopus, and the Queen Elizabeth Class. The Hood was a Battlecruiser if I remember correctly..
 
Actually, America does have three battleships... you forgot the USS Arizona that GeneralMatt did some time ago. :p
If you've seen the Arizona model Matt did, I'd rank it up there with the Queen Elizabeth...
DOH.GIF

(sorry Matt)


Wolfshazne, if there was any Civ I would do Three BB's for it would be Great Britain, but at the moment she only has two Steel BB's, the Canopus, and the Queen Elizabeth Class. The Hood was a Battlecruiser if I remember correctly..
If you're going to get technical, the Canopus is NOT a battleship, it's a Pre-Dreadnought Battleship.

Also, last time I checked, the Hood carries 15" guns... that's big enough in my book to stand-up with the modern battleships (and if you want to argue that point with me, why did the Royal Navy send the HMS Hood against the Bismarck?).

You're playing semantics with me Matt... name the number of "Battlecruiser" ship categories available in Civ4? Yeah... that's what I thought... let's get real, the Hood is in the Battleship category wether or not you want to play cutsie with the name.

I know it's a "Battlecruiser", but you might as well start playing that game with everything else if you want to be consistent... the Dunkerque is a battlecruiser and the Gangut is neither a battleship nor a battlecruiser.

CaptObviousBanner.jpg
 
If you've seen the Arizona model Matt did, I'd rank it up there with the Queen Elizabeth...
DOH.GIF

(sorry Matt)

All right, enough of this. :lol: Matt, after you finish the Littorio, let's set ourselves upon correcting the injustices of the past before we create any more new units. No point in having substandard work perpetuated. ;)
 
;)

Wolfshanze, I am not being technical really. I did the Hood only because I wanted to, not really to fill a BB hole.. And to me, Battleships range from the Victory or before, all the way to todays Iowa, but maybe I was being to untechnical. Any Main battleship that is. The ones that were the "big" guys.. The ones that stayed mostly at home and let the lighter "Cruisers" (Frigates, on) do the heavy work, while the battleships scared the enemy into submission, and if that did not work, blew him.

The Hood did not have enough armour to be considered a "Battleship" and that was why she lost that duel. The Royal Navy either 1. Did not realize it would be a factor or 2. that was only thing they had near good enough at the time.

Anyways..


Hows she look so far?
 

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Any Main battleship that is. The ones that were the "big" guys.. The ones that stayed mostly at home and let the lighter "Cruisers" (Frigates, on) do the heavy work, while the battleships scared the enemy into submission, and if that did not work, blew him.

The Hood did not have enough armour to be considered a "Battleship" and that was why she lost that duel. The Royal Navy either 1. Did not realize it would be a factor or 2. that was only thing they had near good enough at the time.
Frankly I'm ashamed of you Matt... you seem to have no grasp of Royal Navy history if you are writing-off the HMS Hood as you clearly are... let's set some things straight here...

Q1) Is the Hood a "Battlecruiser"?
A1) Yes... she is... now that we have that behind us...

Q2) What is a "Battlecruiser"?
A2) Generally, battlecruisers were similar in layout and armament to battleships but they traded off armour or firepower for higher speed, which showed in their more powerful engines and slender hulls; they still retained enough firepower and protection to be classified as capital ships.

Q3) How does the HMS Hood compare to other British Battleships of the time?
A3) Hood was the largest ship in the Royal Navy when completed; thanks to her great displacement, she seemed to combine the firepower and armour of a battleship with the speed of a battlecruiser, causing some to refer to her as a fast battleship.

Q4) What role did the HMS Hood play in the Royal Navy?
A4) In the inter-war years she was the largest warship in the world at a time when the British public felt a close affinity with the Royal Navy. Her name and general characteristics were familiar to most of the public, and she was popularly known as the Mighty Hood. Because of her fame, she spent a great deal of time on cruises and "flying the flag" visits to other countries... ie: flying the British flag and scaring smaller countries with the largest warship in the world.

Q5) How did the Germans view the HMS Hood as a possible opponent
A5) During the Bismarck's shakedown/training cruise in the Baltic, the German battleship had many drills... most, if not all of them were designed with scenarios that involved the HMS Hood as the main opponent the Bismarck would face. Interviews with surviving German crewman reveals that when they were made known to be facing the HMS Hood for real on that fateful morning, many Germans were in disbelief that they would be facing "the pride" of the Royal Navy.

Q6) Was the Hood underarmored, and did the Navy know this?
Q7) Yes and Yes... The Hood was upgraded considerably both on the design table after Jutland and during the 1920s... further armor increases were planned for the Hood, however, the pressing needs of the Royal Navy to show the flag and operational needs kept the Hood out of the dockyard... however, the Royal Navy was confident the HMS Hood was up to the task of taking-on the Bismarck... hindsight is 20/20, but at the time the HMS Hood was considered a monster in her own right.

***

Matt... the HMS Hood was the pride of the Royal Navy and the largest warship in the Royal Navy (including the KGV class). You are so underselling what the ship was to England, what she was considered at the time, and how she was used by England... she DEFINATELY filled the role of a capital battleship whether or not you want to stick asteriks around the name or not... she was clearly used to intimidate others, show the English flag, and was tossed into battles with the best enemy battleships the world had to offer... the fact she was destroyed in five minutes does not mean she wasn't something the Germans feared and the British used as a capital ship and battleship in every sense of the word.

"Battlecruiser" or not, you have clearly undervalued the importance of the Hood on both the world stage and the British navy Matt... and frankly, I'm shocked you've missed all of this.



Anyways..

Hows she look so far?
Matt... not a fan of the railings-thing... either ditch them or (like Snafu) offer with and without versions... that's too many extra polygons, that usually don't look right (in my book) for little value... ditch them or offer a way to ditch them like Snafu did. Not a fan of the rails!
 
Yeah, there will be a option on the rails.

I am not underestimating her a second. You could have the largest ship EVER and with little armour she could still fall prey to a few ships that have a fair amount.
I do admire the Ship, (and know, and admire most of those facts you mentioned), that is why I created her in the first place, I, just because of the armour issue, do not really consider her a battleship, in the WWII, or even WWI sense of the word.
She subs in fine, but I would really rather see a dedicated role for her in the game, and that was what I was hoping when I created her.
If she had the armour, I am sure she could have stood up the the Bismark. Maybe she is a Battleship in a larger scope of the word, but there is a reason that she had the name "Cruiser" tacked on after "Battle".
I am also sure that if it was not for the Washington Naval treaty, we would have probably had built bigger ships.

Also, I do not see what the term "Battleship" has anything to do with the said ships popularity.. For example, should the USS Constitution be considered a "Battleship" just because she is close to you American's heart? If anything, I would consider that line the "Battlecruiser" of the age of sail. Large, fast, powerful, yet not enough to stand in the Battle line with the "Big" (in the sense of power") guys.
 
Matt... simply put, you're putting way too much precedence on the term "Battleship" vs "Battlecruiser" and even though it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, has feathers like a duck, you're saying it's not a duck, it's a "Mallard".

Yeah... maybe you're right... it's a Mallard... a particular breed of duck... but it's still a duck.

The HMS Hood, weighed more then any other battleship in the Royal Navy, carried just as heavy or a heavier armament then almost every ship in the Royal Navy, had as large a crew, was used in the same roles, was called by many a "Fast Battleship"... and you're going to sit there and say "it's not a battleship and can't be used as one in Civ4 either".

Come on now Matt, really... you're about as far from the truth as you can be by clinging on to the "Battlecruiser" term till the very death of you. The Royal Admiralty itself used the HMS Hood in every way, shape and conceivable form as a battleship, even sending her directly into battle with the most modern and largest battleship in the world at the time, and you're going to sit there with a straight face and tell me the British Royal Admiralty is wrong, it's not a battleship, and we can't think of the Hood as one either... even though it carried a greater displacement then any ship in the entire Royal Navy.

Okay... you're beyond saving Matt... really... you can't see the forest through the trees, you're too stuck on the armor and name to realize the Admiralty itself used this ship as a battleship for decades.

Oh, and for the record, the Dunkurque is not a battleship either (even less-so then the Hood), so I wonder what we're all going to do for a French "Battleship" since you're not making one.
 
Hey, did I say I do not want it used in Civilization as a Battleship? No. I just said I would prefer a "real*" one as a Battleship, I actually like to see my work in peoples mods! Please do not go putting words in my mouth. :) I would just like to see it in a Battlecruiser unit (Same with the Dunkurque), though I realize that is really too limited..

Also realize, when the Hood decided to take on a "Real*" Battleship, look what happened..



*In my humble, uneducated opinion
 
Hey, did I say I do not want it used in Civilization as a Battleship? No. I just said I would prefer a "real*" one as a Battleship, I actually like to see my work in peoples mods!

You mean like the King George V class? :groucho:

Just promise get to it one of these days... :D
 
Do not worry, if it is a Royal Navy ship, no matter what Wolfshanze says I will get to it someday. :lol:
 
Well, you're still not addressing the Dunkerque... if you don't think the Hood is a battleship, and folks should use a "real" battleship instead of the Hood, then how in the world do you justify making the Dunkerque to fill the role of "Battleship" for France!

The Dunkerque class was a new type of warship of the French Navy, labelled as "fast battleship". Not quite the size of a full battleship, they were designed to counter the threat of the German pocket battleships of the Deutschland class... nearly half the displacement of the Hood, and it only sported 13" guns (smaller then WWI Super-Dreadnoughts).

So why are you making the Dunkerque?

If you ask me, I think the Dunkerque is fine in the role.... but by your definition, it doesn't count either.
 
Hmm, we will see what is next, I am not sure. Most likely a sub or two.

A modern nuclear attack submarine like the most recent British Astute class or the American Victoria class? Animated off course like that Russian Akula class Refar made? :yeah: :worship:

The Hood was a Battlecruiser if I remember correctly..

Actually it's funny that a 'battlecruiser' like the Hood had a larger tonnage then a brand new battleship (at the time) like the Prince of Wales... ;)
 
I know, DP II, I know. Wolfshanze, I had forgotten that the Dunkerque was a BC when I agreed to do it.. So if you think I should stick to my guns, I do not mind doing a "true" Battleship. But again, I prefer to have Battlecruiser be Battlecruisers, but I am not set in my ways. ;) And I did address the Dunkerque, I said
(Same with the Dunkurque)

Geomodder: Again, what does tonnage have to do with anything being a battleship? I mean the Titanic probably had more tonnage than some of the WWII BB's (Just a guess).

Anyways, can we please just finish this discussion? You will not change my "Preferences" and I will not change yours, so no need to continue eh? If you want the last word you can have it, I just won't be trying to prove my point, as I am not so super with words as I have found out..

GeoModder, I should have said WWII Subs :p

SoG, the Dunkerque is next, but I did get a fair bit done on the female unit you requested.
So Dunkerque
Fix up the Queen Elizabeth Class to everyone satisfaction
Then after that, not sure yet. Probably more WWII stuff.

And how does the Littorio look?
 

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Where where? :p Does the deck look a little too plain or is it just me?
 
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