[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Sonereal]

Really, this all seems simple to me.

1. You can't reform the police because the police are, by design, agents of a white capitalist ruling class. Any "good" they do is completely incidental to their primary function: protecting property and keeping colonized peoples down.

2. The only sane, adult, thing to do with #1 is, therefore, abolish the police. All other conclusion are fundamentally incorrect, wrong, not even worth consideration by anyone in adult society and those discussions should be quarantined to obscure off-topic sections as much as possible to protect adult society from such considerations.

 

[Estebonrober]

That's not how reality works.



Law enforcement is critical for functional society. Reforming it when it doesn't work well is reasonable. Not supporting its existence is a failed experiment.



Getting tossed in a camp w/o due process is a more serious issue. Police killing of unarmed/non-threatening people in the US is a tiny fraction of those "thousands". In exchange, we don't have a conviction rate > 99% (though China is not unique in that problem).



I don't recall saying this and would appreciate if you didn't outright lie just to squeeze out weak another ad hominem.

No matter how much evidence of the US being a police state that is put before any "libertarian" I have never seen a "libertarian" think anything is wrong with it other then minor edge tweaks. It makes the name incredibly ironic. . .libertarian.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

1. You can't reform the police because the police are, by design, agents of a white capitalist ruling class. Any "good" they do is completely incidental to their primary function: protecting property and keeping colonized peoples down.

Racist assertions do not make for sound arguments.

2. The only sane, adult, thing to do with #1 is, therefore, abolish the police.

Might as well advocate blowing up the moon. At least that one hasn't been tried yet.

No matter how much evidence of the US being a police state that is put before any "libertarian" I have never seen a "libertarian" think anything is wrong with it other then minor edge tweaks. It makes the name incredibly ironic. . .libertarian.

Insofar as anybody has rights, they are protected forcibly. Remove police and you're left with self-protecting as the only option. That usually doesn't go well, and the end result is that someone else will take the role of police regardless of what they call themselves.

 

[Berzerker]

Oh? um thats news to me. Did they make a declaration? Maybe they called the UN first? Oh they sent and ambassador to a federal courthouse!. . .

Please. This is hyperbole and propaganda of the worst kind. Even you are better then falling for this garbage @Berzerker

Antifa's been attacking protesters for years and by their own admission free speech is the enemy

Well, the white folks, anyway. We see how mad they get when black folks show a backbone... I guess they're jealous?

So everyone applaud the looters for their bravery

Target is a giant corporation that supports the state that kills black lives so it kind of seems like targeting Targets is actually a practical political goal for people who want to oppose an oppressive state. It's like throwing tea into the harbor.

Target should be attacked for supporting Biden?

Ever paid taxes?
Would make you a valid target by that logic.

Voting for Joe would whereas taxes are compulsory.

So critical that when the NYPD threw a hissy fit and went on strike crime went down in New York City.

Did crime actually go down or just fewer criminals got arrested?

All other conclusion are fundamentally incorrect, wrong, not even worth consideration by anyone in adult society and those discussions should be quarantined to obscure off-topic sections as much as possible to protect adult society from such considerations.

You were complaining about authoritarianism?

 

[Crezth]

You only have rights if the police choose to protect them, and other libertarian takes in this fun coffee table book that will have you and your friends rolling with laughter.

 

[Seon]

Considering the accusation levied against the police is that the police are the ones interfering and infringing upon the rights of our fellows, and it is demonstrated that the police will resist rational reforms, demanding of a radical solution by our democratic organs is indeed acceptable under the logic of “protecting our rights.”

It was libertarians who have made the argument before if someone was resisting arrest or waving a deadly weapon around, people should absolutely have the power to drop them dead. We are merely doing the same, except to the entire institution, and we are offering due process in the court of law, city councils and state congresses.

 

[Estebonrober]

Racist assertions do not make for sound arguments.



Might as well advocate blowing up the moon. At least that one hasn't been tried yet.



Insofar as anybody has rights, they are protected forcibly. Remove police and you're left with self-protecting as the only option. That usually doesn't go well, and the end result is that someone else will take the role of police regardless of what they call themselves.

Dear Lord man the whole point of the thread is an assertion of racism and it has been backed by statistics for now almost 200 pages of posts. Really sir your dissonance towards reality is epic considering how often you accuse others of trying to ignore it.

As for these last two comments? I am pretty sure the police have very little to do with defending my rights actually. First off most of my rights as listed in the constitution are rights the government is not allowed to infringe on and really the only thing the police actively does is infringe on people's rights. I've certainly never thought, boy this guy is not allowing me to speak my mind I should probably call the police. Or boy this guy is trying to force me to be Muslim I should call the police. Really your points are truly absurd often times. I've been trying not to even interact its just too stupid to justify the time.

 

[Estebonrober]

Antifa's been attacking protesters for years and by their own admission free speech is the enemy

So Proud Boys are the US government and since antifa attacks them that is a declaration of war? I mean I've seen some stretching on both sides of this argument over the past couple fo months but c'mon man.

Also the rest of your response is hilarious as a "libertarian" I mean its like the name is intentionally ironic. Is it? Is that the point? It's like haha we're "libertarians"!

 

[Estebonrober]

You only have rights if the police choose to protect them, and other libertarian takes in this fun coffee table book that will have you and your friends rolling with laughter.

I mean I've literally laughed out loud more than once in the past hour reading this garbage. I'm all for slamming the CCP's system of justice, but to pretend the US is anywhere near the right track right now. . . as a "libertarian" no less is fudging hilarious.

 

[Crezth]

I mean I've literally laughed out loud more than once in the past hour reading this garbage. I'm all for slamming the CCP's system of justice, but to pretend the US is anywhere near the right track right now. . . as a "libertarian" no less is ******* hilarious.

Yeah that’s sort of the direction I was winding this up. Regardless of the actual state of Chinese justice, if people are going to pretend to abhor forced labor camps and extrajudicial execution, they should take a long look at America’s gigantic forced labor population and murderous cops. Quite frankly it’d be grotesque if there weren’t riots.

You never hear libertarians ask for justice for Breonna Taylor. They don’t bother asking about her, learning about her, telling people about her. The only thing they care about is whether corporate property is damaged. Fancy that.

 

[Seon]

Just to be clear, CCP’s judicial and justice system is unfair. However, they will likely not shoot you. You will be arrested. You will have your day on trial. The trial may be biased against you, but you will still get your ‘due process,’ no matter how unfair it is.

If American due process is so superior, than American police’s denial of it to thousand+ people they shoot to death every year is a subjectively worse crime.

It is also whataboutism. Chinese justice system and courts is unfair. It is also absolutely unrelated to normal operation of its law enforcement agencies. Sure, you can be shot for doing drugs in China, but you will be arrested first, and the Court will be the one signing your death warrant after a trial. This does not in any way exonerate American police who will likely shoot you and deny you your day in court.

 

[Estebonrober]

Just to be clear, CCP’s judicial and justice system is unfair. However, they will likely not shoot you. You will be arrested. You will have your day on trial. The trial may be biased against you, but you will still get your ‘due process,’ no matter how unfair it is.

If American due process is so superior, than American police’s denial of it to thousand+ people they shoot to death every year is a subjectively worse crime.

It is also whataboutism. Chinese justice system and courts is unfair. It is also absolutely unrelated to normal operation of its law enforcement agencies. Sure, you can be shot for doing drugs in China, but you will be arrested first, and the Court will be the one signing your death warrant after a trial. This does not in any way exonerate American police who will likely shoot you and deny you your day in court.

yea and I can elaborate on the fact that even American "due process" is extremely racist in application. Black Americans are convicted at far far higher rates especially when you add ion plea deals and no contest pleas.

 

[Sonereal]

Racist assertions do not make for sound arguments.

Playing with a half deck, I swear to God.

Might as well advocate blowing up the moon. At least that one hasn't been tried yet.

Sure.

Insofar as anybody has rights, they are protected forcibly. Remove police and you're left with self-protecting as the only option. That usually doesn't go well, and the end result is that someone else will take the role of police regardless of what they call themselves.

My only interactions with the police my entire life were

A.) Being pulled over for speeding tickets
B.) Things at my house were stolen and the police showed up several hours later and didn't do anything
C.) A friend crying to me because she tried to report a rape and the police basically told her it was her fault.

But, sure, the police are protecting my rights(TM) which somehow end up in the back of fleeing Black suspects every two months or whatever. Yeah, sure, TMIT. You're wise and all-knowing. You should start a podcast and call it Chapo I Refuse to Engage with Reality.

Antifa's been attacking protesters for years and by their own admission free speech is the enemy

Free speech is my enemy, personally. Americans have free speech and they use it to spread myths about 5G causing COVID-19, masks causing hypoxia, libertarianism, and boomer memes about Antifa.

Did crime actually go down or just fewer criminals got arrested?

https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-proactive-policing-crime-20170925-story.html

Lot of scary words here but I'm sure you can walk yourself through it and that I didn't waste my time with a two second Google search to dig up literally the first result so I don't have to personally come to your house and walk you through it.

You were complaining about authoritarianism?

I'm not a third grader holding desperately onto myths of libertarianism, Zerky pal. I'm absolutely pro-oppressing the living hell out of the bourgeoisie.

 

[Joij21]

I'm absolutely pro-oppressing the living hell out of the bourgeoisie.

The bourgeoisie don't exist. Access denied.

 

[Sonereal]

The bourgeoisie don't exist. Access denied.

Keep up that energy, buddy.

 

[Joij21]

Keep up that energy, buddy.

View attachment 563103
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Really? Comparing me to the KKK? Get a life dude. Too bad you took offense to my jest.

 

[Sonereal]

I find it incredible the complete cognitive dissonance certain persons in this thread seem to have with regards to the fact that Black Lives Matter, as does just about every Black Liberation movement in the US in the last century, leans left. If I was an adult, I would take a step back and ask, "Man it sure seems as if my politics are readily consumed by racists, should I engage in a journey of self-reflection? No, I'm just going to be wrong in Off-Topic and get yelled at by people because the more I'm yelled at the more correct I am."

Really? Comparing me to the KKK? Get a life dude. Too bad you took offense to my jest.

"Haha I was only pretending."

Maybe if you don't want to get compared to the Klan, you should refrain from saying things that are comparable to what the Klan says. Maybe engage in a struggle session with members of your peer group and reflect on why in isolation your postings would lead somebody smart and great, me, to believe that about you, Joji21.

 

[Crezth]

Really? Comparing me to the KKK? Get a life dude. Too bad you took offense to my jest.

The KKK started as a social club just "in jest" so maybe take a different tack to cover your ass here?

The first Klan was founded in Pulaski, Tennessee, on December 24, 1865 by six former officers of the Confederate army: Frank McCord, Richard Reed, John Lester, John Kennedy, J. Calvin Jones and James Crowe. It started as a fraternal social club inspired at least in part by the then largely defunct Sons of Malta. It borrowed parts of the initiation ceremony from that group, with the same purpose: "ludicrous initiations, the baffling of public curiosity, and the amusement for members were the only objects of the Klan", according to Albert Stevens in 1907.​

 

[Joij21]

The KKK started as a social club just "in jest" so maybe take a different tack to cover your ass here?

My comment has nothing to do with the KKK. It's about the bourgeoise. Two completely different subjects.

"Haha I was only pretending."

Maybe if you don't want to get compared to the Klan, you should refrain from saying things that are comparable to what the Klan says. Maybe engage in a struggle session with members of your peer group and reflect on why in isolation your postings would lead somebody smart and great, me, to believe that about you, Joji21.

Your comparing me to the KKK when I was strictly talking about the bourgeoise. Did my comment about the bourgeoise offend you because it makes you look less "smart and great" than you claim to be? Or is it the fact that the so called bourgeoise might not be so clear cut and real as you like to believe?

 

[Estebonrober]

Really? Comparing me to the KKK? Get a life dude. Too bad you took offense to my jest.

I mean you are in a forum with actual communists, a world wide forum that has people who know the difference between a social democrat and a communist unlike almost every American I know personally lol. Did you think you would not get called out?