Getting Away With Nazi Warcrimes!

[ParkCungHee]

it is not possible to specialise in economic and financial history at the level of Niall Ferguson without getting at least an undergraduate degree in Finance and economics.

Well you're demonstrably wrong, because Niall Ferguson has no degree in Finance or economics.

 

[mghani]

Well you're demonstrably wrong, because Niall Ferguson has no degree in Finance or economics.

And if by any chance , Niall Fergusson has no expertise in economics, then that makes him even more of a pseudoscientist, as he promotes himself as an expert on the subject, even pitting himself against Nobel Prize Winners for Economics such as Paul Krugman. as i wrote earlier.

the man speaks with such intimidating authority on the subject of economics he had me fooled.

Why? By the looks of how you use the term: Because it sounds bad?

you may well have a point. but i think i know what the problem is. culture-gap. i come from a country which has been victim of british slavery; one of the most dehumanising and barbaric institutions of the modern world; and yet an institution which many Westerners for a variety of reasons do not understand or sympathise with, unlike I do. I keep forgetting that. forgive me for assuming that everyone ought to know that British Colonialism was a racist evil, just like everyone assumes that Nazism or fascism were also racist evils. I mean no Jew or anyone for that matter would have to qualify a position which maintains that one who talks about the benefits of Nazism, outweighing the bad is a racist. So why should I? I suppose am biased & arrogant like that.

 

[ParkCungHee]

the man speaks with such intimidating authority on the subject of economics he had me fooled.

But you verified his expertise! You were so confident in his expertise that you axiomatically claimed he must have a degree in economics. That it was impossible for him to hold such expertise without such a degree. So it couldn't be his confidence that was the issue.

 

[slask]

... was dying before the end of World War II, as seen by Truman's veto of the Morgenthau Plan.

Not quite accurate. Actually not accurate at all. Truman never vetoed the Morgenthau plan. He did however halt the implementation of it, but this was not until it had been under implementation for a full 17 months. You can do a hell of a lot of damage during one year and a half.

As General Clay would later state regarding the occupation directive guiding his and General Eisenhower's actions: "there was no doubt that JCS 1067 contemplated the Carthaginian peace which dominated our operations in Germany during the early months of occupation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_D._Clay

According to many historians Truman did not end the Morgenthau plan until the speech made by secretary of state, James Byrnes, in Stutgart in September 1946.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2147827

What these old historians did not know was that president Truman and secretary Byrnes agreed with them, because documents of the UK government that were declassified in 2006 show that Byrnes told the UK government exactly the same thing.

"b) U.S. policy was pastoralising (Morgenthan) until Stuttgart speech. They supported R. & Fr. case - to point of reducing steel prodn to 5.8 m. tons. And during Loan talks, cdn't oppose them too strongly."

" Before this was completed I had seen Byrnes (before Stuttgart speech) & asked wtr. this meant he wd. overthrow Morgenthau policy. He said yes - with Truman's authy. Later saw him & took him thro' all points in my memo."
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/releases/2006/march/policy_germany.htm

QED

 

[Dachs]

What an extremely interesting first post.

 

[mghani]

But you verified his expertise! You were so confident in his expertise that you axiomatically claimed he must have a degree in economics. That it was impossible for him to hold such expertise without such a degree. So it couldn't be his confidence that was the issue.

hey Park as you said i was demonstrably wrong on that particular point. But nonetheless if your claim that Ferguson has no expertise in actual economics is correct that makes my wider point about his pseudointellectualism, even stronger.

 

[LightSpectra]

Not quite accurate. Actually not accurate at all. Truman never vetoed the Morgenthau plan. He did however halt the implementation of it, but this was not until it had been under implementation for a full 17 months.

"Veto" is Latin for "I forbid (it)". Ending the operation on his presidential authority is a veto, whether or not it's still going.

 

[mghani]

You Zionist imperialist agent! How much did Mossad and the FBI pay you for posting this?

You would be surprised the number of people out there who do that kind of thing for free.

 

[strijder20]

Why persecute these old men & let their American or Nato counterparts go free?

Because only losing nations get punished. I fear America (and the NATO) is currently not losing.
... Or is it?

Anyway, thinking the Western world is one without corruption, violence and abuse of human rights is thinking the western world is an utopia. Yes, the Nazis were bad. But do not blame it on the 'character' of the Germans. A group of people living on the same patch of ground might share some ideas, but everyone is different in the end.

Hitler was charismatic enough to get to the top, and if refusing to work in one of these dead camps means the loss of your job or the death of your family, would you say no? Someone would do it anyway. That's the horror of a police state.

The Nazis have done horrible things. But as you said, some other people have committed serious crimes too, and are a lot younger. Why don't we get them in jail?

 

[Masada]

hey Park as you said i was demonstrably wrong on that particular point. But nonetheless if your claim that Ferguson has no expertise in actual economics is correct that makes my wider point about his pseudointellectualism, even stronger.

It doesn't actually. If anything it strengthens his case for intellectualism. Quite simply, you tried to engage in character assassination on the basis of fictive ties to economics, got the material particulars wrong, and lost the point. Now having been found out, you've changed tact, shifting to more generalised character assassination. This isn't to say that there isn't lots wrong with Ferguson, there is, but that I refuse to accept at face value your word that he's a pseudointellectual. (Expecting that I would is to my mind the mark of a pseudointellectual: belief without basis in evidence or fact).

 

[Core Imposter]

When I finished reading the opening post the thought in my head was, "Boy, viewing the world through the prism of the internet is going to be wild during the next imminent world war."

But it might be short lived.

 

[mghani]

It doesn't actually. If anything it strengthens his case for intellectualism. Quite simply, you tried to engage in character assassination on the basis of fictive ties to economics, got the material particulars wrong, and lost the point. Now having been found out, you've changed tact, shifting to more generalised character assassination. This isn't to say that there isn't lots wrong with Ferguson, there is, but that I refuse to accept at face value your word that he's a pseudointellectual. (Expecting that I would is to my mind the mark of a pseudointellectual: belief without basis in evidence or fact).

How does it strengthen his case for intellectualism? Posing as an expert on a subject which you have no qualifications on. My character assasination (based on his economic views) as you put it was based largely on the criticism of Nial Ferguson by Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize winner for Economics.

 

[ParkCungHee]

How does it strengthen his case for intellectualism? Posing as an expert on a subject which you have no qualifications on.

But you verified his expertise, so we know he's qualified.

 

[mghani]

But you verified his expertise, so we know he's qualified.

We have been through this, before. Give up.

 

[ParkCungHee]

We have been through this, before. Give up.

What am I to give up? You said he was an expert on this matter. I said you were demonstrably wrong that he has a degree in economics. You still haven't adequately explained how he's not an expert, even though you yourself believe there to be evidence of expertise.

 

[Virote_Considon]

We have been through this, before. Give up.

Well, that sure showed him. You go girlfriend!

 

[mghani]

What am I to give up?

your persistence in emphasising a minor error, already admitted to.

 

[ParkCungHee]

your persistence in emphasising a minor error, already admitted to.

No, you haven't admitted to the error. You admited that he does not have a degree. What you have not explained is what happened to his expertise. You have not given any evidence that he is not the expert you yourself said he had. He certainly has expertise that in your mind is unthinkable for his level of education. Which to me means you believe he has extraordinary competency, which is at odds with your thesis that he is a psuedoscientist, or psuedohistorian.

 

[mghani]

No, you haven't admitted to the error. You admited that he does not have a degree. What you have not explained is what happened to his expertise. You have not given any evidence that he is not the expert you yourself said he had. He certainly has expertise that in your mind is unthinkable for his level of education. Which to me means you believe he has extraordinary competency, which is at odds with your thesis that he is a psuedoscientist, or psuedohistorian.

Good grief. I pity your mind. But nevertheless if i understand your contention correctly, history is replete with brilliant and competent scientists who contributed to pseudointellectualism and pseudoscience. For instance the European scientists and historians of the 19th century like Friedich Hegel were brilliant, even genius but nonetheless promoted pseudoscientic racist garbage. In a matter of fact some believe Hegel was the inspiration for the racist pseudoscience of Nazi Germany.

In the case of Economics an apt example of pseudoscience and pseudo intellectualism was created by a quite brilliant economist, Thomas Malthus responsible for developing certain fields of economics, such as the Law of Diminishing Return. His Pseudoscientific theory was called the Malthusian Economic Theory:

Thomas Robert Malthus introduced in his 1798 Essay in the Principle of Population a relationship between population growth and what he termed subsistence. The first grew geometrically while the second increased only at an arithmetic ratio. Thus, he proposed the existence of an inverse relationship between population growth and development derived from the law of diminishing returns. This law is the belief that more people mean fewer goods for each person; thus, as population grows, poverty inevitably increases

His example is quite apt as Niall Ferguson belongs to the school of economic thinking which resemble the inhuman theory of Malthus. Niall Fergusson believes for instance that the solution to the present Global economic crisis is deficit reduction. Spending less money on education, healthcare & public infrastructure; never mind high unenmployment and reduction in household incomes and depleting infrastructure. No, Niall Ferguson believes in the Sanctity of Debt. Paying off debts at all costs and as first priority, even if it means the decline of human civilization, which Malthus sees as a kind of efficient technical necessity:

Although he believed his predictions were inevitable, his intent was not to promote government-implemented population control policies. Instead, Malthus upheld the idea of a population optimum where human numbers would be held in balance with supply. This optimum was not to be achieved by promoting contraception but through preventive as well as what he called positive checks, particularly amongst the working classes. The first one was to be achieved through “moral restraint.” The second one was to operate in tandem with the preventive checks which he described as “all the causes which tend in any way prematurely to shorten the duration of human life, such as unwholesome occupations, severe labour and exposure to the seasons, bad and insufficient clothing arising from poverty … the whole train of human diseases and epidemics, wars, infanticide, plague, and famine

A philosophy which Paul Krugman, being the descent human being he is, vigorously opposses:Economic Bleeding Cure Favoring instead financial reforms which reign in the speculation and poisonous derivative trading in wall street and ofcourse, its evil twin London, as does Webster Tarpley, albeit more vigorously:WEbster Tarpley.

So no, being brilliant as Niall Fergusson may well be, does not save him from the ignoble fate of pseudoscience.

 

[r16]

ı have a cherished reputation to write weird posts . Let's check whether am ı getting any rusty .

this isn't a flippant mockery of people who suffer .

first thing to notice is that NATO , while involved in highway robbery , does not intentionally commit warcrimes on a large scale systematic basis . So far at least .

there are two sides to same coin , repulsive conduct by the other side is still repulsive for this side too . NTC forces are doing the exact same things they were so vocal against , the only difference being the TV stations now do not shy of showing what will happen if hearts are kept stout . Beating Blacks on TV is condoned , and the channels claim they only report . The idea that they are unbiased neutral information sources is a fake and a lie and no one should expect they will be made to turn on the NTC to reverse the gains . They are extensions , as much as Trablus TV was .

when the unheralded option of moral standing is chosen , the following should be 100% . At least an attempt should be made . That's why Bingazi guys are now in Trablus . The alleged Greenflag crimes might be as elusive as Iraqi WMD , Bigfoot and sense in me ; it doesn't follow everything was OK . The kind of forces who are clear only to an idiot named r16 / the OP would have liked to mobilize had any kind of familiarity existed , have the means to see in the dark , better compared to Amnesty International . The front could have been in Bin Cevad , still , for the next 50 years . A la condittieori , like only casualties would be those who fell from their horses .

the rest better in spoilers , as the relevance to the topic is loose even by my loose standarts .

Spoiler :

anyways , the description -uhm- "Liberally Lenient Leftist Lazbos" [a replaced with e for meaning] falls rather short . Success when measured in blood is too expensive , it's not readily sought . Which invariably leads to a dismissal . The kind of people who might have got interested in anti-Bushist notions would keep low , the campaign aims limited to preventing theft of Libyan oil , unless escalation . Americans couldn't exactly do it in Iraq , conquest financed by loot , Europeans are better ? Any supporters of Kaddafi might have been hard for Bingazi to justify , OK , then that part remains under the soil ... Will fall on deaf ears , Paris for starters will go on claiming France is #3 in the world ranking of oil reserves after Saudi Arabia and Canada ; Rafales only for liberty equality whatever . Funnily enough the loot from the command post "stolen" says otherwise .

uK for its part has not satisfied the lust for tribal trickery in sandy countries , with expertise of Musa Kusa , envoy from Trablus though not from the top . Which incidentally explains the story of the war in Libya . It appears Mutassım has been taken back ; sons of Kaddafi might not understand what their father is doing . OK , let them retire to Algeria . Without their father , they are merely Libyan citizens despite the belief pumped on by Europeans ; no more surrendering unless explicitly ordered by the Colonel . Tribalism in Libya will be over , now that so much blood has been spilled , not even Bingazi tribes will succeed Kazzaf . It doesn't hurt any feelings if tribes give up , quicker the guerilla war begins with all non-African elements , better .

and it is amusing the spacefad has reached the NTC lot , claiming they have been tracking Col. Kaddafi with satellites . No you are not ; unless of course you just launched a consellation of stealthy sputniks in the last month or two ... Otherwise it is other peoples satellites .

trying to bring back the old days , with only the figurehead replaced , is a no-go . Mr. Kusa might provide all the guarantees but where were the Tornados when the 32nd Brigade hit it as a ticket for European leniency ? It being the Galactica Marine detachment , now that ı must write something fully idiotic .

ı have been here since 2008 , and people rightly do not pay much attention to me .