Getting Started

[Seek]

I have a wonderful treat for the next version of VEM:

Took much more time than expected to get that to work, but the end result is nice. It does cause a tiny but noticeable lag every time a specialist is added or removed (thanks to having to recalculate how many specialists there are and where they go).

Thank you for your work, Sneaks! Can't wait to use it

Txurce, when are getting that monitor?

 

[Txurce]

Txurce, when are getting that monitor?

The problem is that it's not my monitor. That said, I hope to be playing, with that monitor or another, by this weekend.

 

[truetom]

Seems a great addition. Can't wait.

 

[Kakafika]

Thank's for all your work, Sneaks! The city interface was a constant frustration for me; your recent changes have made this micromanager VERY pleased!

 

[tlaurila]

Brilliant Sneaks!

 

[blightmoon]

Breaking into another topic...

Does anyone else think Furs is quite underpowered?
1. Tech tree placement that is normally delayed in place of Pottery/Mining
2. Improvement gives gold (not hammers)
3. Lack of bonus upon having a building (Mint for Gold)

 

[bwoww78]

Breaking into another topic...

Does anyone else think Furs is quite underpowered?
1. Tech tree placement that is normally delayed in place of Pottery/Mining
2. Improvement gives gold (not hammers)
3. Lack of bonus upon having a building (Mint for Gold)

Could including Furs with the buffs from buildings that also buff deer, sheep, etc. help? If typically Furs are found in the forest, there is a reality benefit here. just an idea.

 

[Sneaks]

Breaking into another topic...

Does anyone else think Furs is quite underpowered?
1. Tech tree placement that is normally delayed in place of Pottery/Mining
2. Improvement gives gold (not hammers)
3. Lack of bonus upon having a building (Mint for Gold)

Furs gets culture from Temples, and can be worked immediately after Archery, a tech that offers the earliest wonder.

 

[Ahriman]

...archery offers a Wonder? Not for most of us (I'm assuming this is a DLC wonder?). I don't think we should balance around DLC.

I think furs are ok though, in part because I do think that Archery is an incredibly important tech, because of how important an early archer is to fight off a rush on high difficulty levels. The main reason why furs are weak is because they're found near tundra, which is useless terrain.

It is a bit unfortunate that early gold is a bit weak relative to hammers, because of how long it takes to accumulate enough gold to buy anything, but I think that is inevitable.

 

[tlaurila]

To make fur-covered tundra more useful, furs could give a bonus food, as opposed to gold (or less gold).

 

[Sneaks]

I would be against any changes to Furs that would make Tundra cities easily sustainable. Furs still provide high gold, minor food and production, as well as culture with a temple, not to mention 4 global happiness.

 

[EsoEs]

I can see merits for both sides as you want all ur cities to be productive, but at the same time its nice to have variety in land value. I was very confused when I first started playing Civ 5 and flood plains were no different than grassland tiles, kind of bummed me out, although I guess it evens out starting positions a bit. Middle of the map high value cities are going to make enemies of other civs, low value cities in the tundra probably won't make you enemies, and also won't get you embroiled in conflict with your neighbors. Seems balanced gameplay wise but whether or not its fun is another question.

 

[Ahriman]

I agree with Sneaks.
I strongly disagree with the idea that all cities should be productive, no matter where they are built. Tundra cities should be weak.

Furs are still sometimes valuable, but mostly for a city on the border of tundra (ie tundra tiles are mostly forest), or from a city state.

 

[Thalassicus]

I don't feel furs are underpowered. The combination of camps and archers on one tech in VEM makes the camp more accessible than vanilla. The furs can be sold for 240, just about enough to buy any early building. Temples also improve the tile +1 as Sneaks pointed out. Temples use clothing resources like furs, cotton, silk, and dye to create more elaborate ceremonial attire for spiritual rituals.

 

[EsoEs]

Totally off topic here but I liked the cost nerf on the water mill, but to me, its more powerful with additional rather than buffing its . I know it will be built in river tiles, but lets be honest, river food tiles are not what they once were (ala civ4). Gaining an ability to work production tiles rather than gaining a few production in the city is probably more powerful. Considering the changes to tradition, I wouldnt mind seeing a buff on the water mill rather than the additional 2

 

[Thalassicus]

I do want to ensure the Granary and Watermill have distinct roles. If the cost, bonus, and tech are close, then Watermills could be removed, and Granaries buffed near rivers. While Granaries with extra value near both particular resources or rivers would be reasonable and interesting, I avoid major changes like removing/adding a building when there's other alternatives.

Watermills previously gave -1 to +1 and 2-5 (depending on the Engineer), and now are a fixed 13, which I feel is relatively similar.

 

[Jorlem]

What exactly does the choice you are given when the AI denounces you actually do? I mean, they are denouncing you, so they already don't like you, and I don't think I've really noticed any correlation between what I say, and if they go to war with me later, though I haven't been looking too closely.

 

[Txurce]

What exactly does the choice you are given when the AI denounces you actually do? I mean, they are denouncing you, so they already don't like you, and I don't think I've really noticed any correlation between what I say, and if they go to war with me later, though I haven't been looking too closely.

We were discussing diplomatic exchanges in another thread right now. This seems to fall into the "no difference" category. My guess is that it's something the devs expected to develop further.

 

[Jorlem]

We were discussing diplomatic exchanges in another thread right now. This seems to fall into the "no difference" category. My guess is that it's something the devs expected to develop further.

That's... somewhat frustrating. I wonder if the AI gets a similar 'choice' when they are denounced, as an indicator if they are now more willing to declare war on the denouncer? Also, which thread is the discussion in?

 

[Txurce]

That's... somewhat frustrating. I wonder if the AI gets a similar 'choice' when they are denounced, as an indicator if they are now more willing to declare war on the denouncer? Also, which thread is the discussion in?

That's an interesting question in theory, even if it seemingly has no effect.

The thread is "How to respond to AI denunciation" in the Strategy thread.