GGF4: French

[grahamiam]

gogf is up, unless we find another player curious set of turns, cmdr bello.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by grahamiam
gogf is up, unless we find another player curious set of turns, cmdr bello.

Curious? Why?

Not satisfied?

 

[Gogf]

Got it.

Originally posted by Commander Bello
Just some ideas:

I see Orleans becoming the site for the SoZ. Although I like wonders at the capital (for the nil corruption/waste), Paris will become our settler factory, I would propose (quite some good tiles there - the Game and the Wine give additional food to make settlers come early and we can speed up things considerably with a granary).

Until we get the SoZ and the proposed additional cities, we should spare any wars.
And after that, let's get the Incan Empire

I pretty much agree.

BTW, I think we'll just play with four players, I'll take the slot off the first page.

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by Commander Bello
Curious? Why?
Not satisfied?

no, just you went in a direction different from the rest of the team. for instance, gogf had clearly established a min. research run on writing (2nd tier tech), then go for philosophy asap. you changed it after we were 30turns into it for a 1st tier tech that was readily available via trade, and which you then later traded for. another, you bailed on the granery prebuild in paris while a pottery trade was available, then stated later that paris should be a settler factory.

this is why i considered it curious

i have no problem with the current direction we're going right now (max towards math, granery in paris, inca in our sights for later). sounds good

 

[Gogf]

Log:

Pre: Nothing
1: Nothing
2: Warrior2 kills barb warrior in camp, no loss of HP
3: Warrior2 kills a barb, losed one HP, but promotes
4: Paris Warrior[ 6] >> Settler
Lyons Warrior >> Worker
Warrior2 kills last barb, loses one HP
Send Warrior 6 out exploringc
5: Orleans riots, I give them entertainment.
Fortify Warrior2 (regain HP)
6: Orleans Settler >> Temple (you can change if you want)
Warrior2 is fully healed, I move him easy
Attack a foritfied barb on a hill with Warrior 6, kill it but lose two

(out of three) HP. I see an elite Incan warrior ready to take out the

camp.
7: Move Orleans settler on a go to to Cmdr Bello's city 4 site, I don't

the Incans taking it.
8: Fortify Warrior 6 on a mountain.
9: Lyons Worker >> Warrior (you can change if you want)
10: Warrior 6 unforitifies, I move him south.

End screenshot:

 

[Gogf]

Dot map one (non expanded culture):

NOTE: Numbers are in no specific order

It took forever to make CT's things smaller...

 

[Gogf]

Dot map two (expanded culture):

NOTE: Numbers are in no specific order

 

[Gogf]

Save is here.

I didn't know uploads were back...

 

[grahamiam]

nice set lots of free land available and CB's #4 site looks like a powerhouse. any opinions on changing Paris to a granery now so we can really start spitting out settlers?

really nice maps! very cool

 

[Gogf]

Yeah, I guess that's right... It only takes ten turns to build a settler, but it also takes ten turns to grow the first time.

I think it's your turn, as I think Cizzlewalk is probably still envolved in RL . Just play whenever you can. If you're back, CZ, please post. Until you post, I'll assume you're still away.

 

[Gogf]

Originally posted by grahamiam
really nice maps! very cool

Thanks. Here is the smaller CT thing I editted (it took forever!):

 

[grahamiam]

ok, i can't start for 5 more hours so Cizzlewalk has plenty of time. otherwise, i'll make it my mission to get that factory running as best as possible.

As I can see it, we only have enough food to do a 5T factory, but that's still pretty good. maybe we can alternate between 4T and 6T to optimize it, building a warrior every now and again.

 

[Gogf]

Okay.

 

[grahamiam]

got it.

 

[grahamiam]

first, the 1475BC save

Preflight check: looks good. Change paris to granary (8T). I wont be able to get a worker over to this area very soon to help so I’m not sure if it’ll by 100% ready by the time CB is up. MM for growth in Paris in 5T, granary in 10T. This will improve after growth as we’ll get 2 more spt and will finish in 8T anyways. Stop miner near Orleans and move him over to ivory to road. We’ll need the lux for the larger sized Paris. Warrior 1 will come home to protect CB#4. Keep temple build going @ Orleans for the happiness.

Inca and Iroquois IW, Inca up a lot of other stuff as well.

IBT: Inca boots W1 from Ollantaytambo into the direction of CB #4. Thanks! Those Inca town names are worse than the Aztecs

T1: 1700BC Move some warriors, Settler continues on his way

T2: 1675BC ditto, worker starts roading ivory

IBT: Lyons warrior -> warrior

T3: 1650BC New warrior heads due S from Lyons; found Rheims -> worker; Warrior2 attacks barb hut and dies without scratching the barb.

IBT: Inca building the Oracle

T4: 1625BC Move warriors. Inca now up WC and IW but neither will not trade either.

T5: 1600BC Paris grows, adjust lux slider, Math still in 3T

IBT: Inca take 25g, don’t worry Pacha, we’ll be back to collect soon enough

T6: 1575BC moving stuff, building stuff. MM Paris off woods and onto Wines to boost growth, granary still in 2T

IBT: Lyons warrior -> barracks (next player may want to change)

T7: 1550BC Math due in 1T, adjust sci slider to get an extra 6g

Research: math -> currency for now; Switch Orleans to SoZ; Paris granary -> settler

T8: 1525BC Don’t sell Math yet since Orleans is 55T from completing SoZ. I’ll wait till Orleans is making a couple more spt. Research is at -1gpt for now. Lyons warrior finds wines to the south. Switch research to IW since I’m not selling Math right now.

T9: 1500BC Warriors find barb camps to the East and West.

T10: 1475BC W6 finds many wines to the NW. Worker chops game forrest near Lyons to speed up barracks build.

Trades are available for Math but I held off due to SoZ slow build in Orleans. Can get Wheel and 175g from Inca or IW, WC, and 25g from Inca. I’ll let CB decide since he’s got the golden trade touch

MM'ing Paris right now won't speed anything up but can cause loss of gpt. settler should be done in 3T due to growth (hopefully the computer puts the new citz on the forrest). We need 1 more mined grass for Paris and it should be good to go as a 3-5 size settler factory. we'll need to do a warrior build now and again to let the pop catch up, preventing us from going under size 3 or 4. imho, it will work best between sizes 4 and 6.

Inca are pressing southerly pretty strong. imho, we need the next settler to go to the NE between Orleans and Rheims to stop thier flow.

 

[AntiTwelve]

HOLY CR@P!!!!

You didn't even give me time to comment and THE WHOLE TEAM played?!?!?! Man you guys are lucky
You guessed right though, I can't play until this thing is resolved and at this rate I'll be free by Sunday afternoon-ish. You've all done an awesome job thus far... but PLZ save some for me! See yaz guys in a few.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by grahamiam
no, just you went in a direction different from the rest of the team. for instance, gogf had clearly established a min. research run on writing (2nd tier tech), then go for philosophy asap. you changed it after we were 30turns into it for a 1st tier tech that was readily available via trade, and which you then later traded for. another, you bailed on the granery prebuild in paris while a pottery trade was available, then stated later that paris should be a settler factory.

this is why i considered it curious

i have no problem with the current direction we're going right now (max towards math, granery in paris, inca in our sights for later). sounds good

Ok, please let my explain - just for the sake of our understanding about how the other one is thinking:
It wasn't my intention to spoil anything, or to carelessly changing anything someone before me has made his thoughts about already. Especially, since it is one of my main strategies as well to head for Philosophy (for the bonus tech AND the MoM <= which we should not miss!)
But, as I met the Iroquois during my turns and they were about to make contact with the Incans, I decided to get the max out of the possible tech trades, before they would do it.
So, I traded 2 tech of ours and 45 gold for 3 other techs (including Pottery for the granary at Paris and Ceremonial Burial, which I regard as being crucial in the early game for making people content and extending borders as well as city's productive areas).
I agree that it was a pity that I met the Iroquois the turn after the changes at Paris.
Anyway, since we didn't know about Pottery at that moment, the barracks pre-build wasn't that attractive. Furthermore, Paris would have lost the 3rd citizen's contribution due to the need to make him an entertainer.
In short, this have been my reasons for changing the path at that particular moment.
Again, this shall not be any start for a debate, just an attempt to explain my reasons.
-------

May I suggest that we change Gogf's location #6 one tile NE? This would give us access to the fresh water as well, but would save the forest for chopping. We would have two forest tiles (20 shields) available for a temple, and after extending the borders another two forests for a granary or a barracks.
The fact that town areas would be more overlapping than as by following Gogf's proposal isn't that bad, since that early in the game we won't be able to make use of all of those tiles, anyway. And Paris still has lots of good tiles to be used.

Next suggestion: As Gogf's map reveals, my assumption about the Ivories constituting a monopoly spot was wrong
There is another ivory 7 tiles NE of Lyons (next to the Barb camp). We shoud try to secure that Ivory as well. Nothing would be more frustrating as being outraced by the AI on SoZ.
Especially, as SoZ will make the Incan territory become ours in the future, thus giving us access to 2 additional luxuries. Then, we would have 4 native luxuries, which should be enough in the early game to cope with any unhappiness.

Just my two Euro-Cents

 

[Commander Bello]

Wow... while I'm writing, you're exploring the world

Who's up?

[edit] Since cizzlewalk claims to be out until Sunday, I got it!

I will wait some time in case that I broke the chain - but currently, we are just 3 active players, aren't we?

[edit2] Re-read. Yep, we are 3 active ones and cizzlewalk unpatiently waiting

So, I got it!

 

[Commander Bello]

Pre-flight checks:

Empire:
4 cities.:
Paris (2 h / 0 c / 2 uh); next pop in 1, Settler in 4, 1 warrior present
Orleans (1 h / 1 c / 0 uh); next pop in 6, SoZ in 53, 1 warrior present
Lyons (0 h / 2 c / 0 uh); next pop in 9, barracks in 11, 1 warrior present
Rheims (0 h / 1 c / 0 uh); next pop in 3, worker in 3, 1 warrior present

Unit count:
2 workers, 8 warriors

Income:
118 gold in treasury, -1 gpt, 0.9.1
Iron working in 10

Remarks:
What really thrills me is the speed of Incan expansion. In the same time in which we founded 2 cities, they founded 6 with one of those already being at cultural level #2 (Ollantaytambo)

Warning! Major changes ahead!
I would like to change research on Iron Working to something else. Explanation follows:
With an empire of currently 4 cities, we are not able to do a wonder race, build up a strong military (Swordmen), secure our cities, found new cities and do the rest of exploration.
The wonder race is a must for us, thus taking Orleans out of any other plans. Paris is going to spawn settlers and workers (who we bitterly need). The first settler available from Paris is to head to the Ivories between Orleans and Rheims, to avoid them being taken by the Incans. To prevent cultural flipping, that new town has to built a temple first, next to the mandatory warrior.
Rheims is struggling for everything and way off from being connected. By that, Lyons at the moment is the last and only city with some kind of flexibility.

Checking intellligence, I learn that we might trade:
Iroquois: Math <=> Iron Working, Warrior Code, 20 gold
Incans: Math, 70 gold <=> Writing
Totals up to Math & 50 gold <=> IW, WC, Writing, which seems proper to me.

Next I would change the SoZ@Orleans to temple (in 5 by next turn). That is to allow Orleans to size 6+ (under current conditions it would be stuck at 5). The SoZ costs 200 shields. Orleans currently produces net 3 and takes 20 turns for the 4th pop, if working on shield tiles. Only 2 grass tiles are currently available, which would have to be mined. To avoid the next pop there becoming a clown, we have to connect Orleans first. After that, I would irrigate (quicker than mining) the plains to the east and road them for the next city to be built. Then I would turn back to mine the grassland.

There is some kind of risk in this!
We don't know whether the Incans have access to Ivory in the black area north of our territory (currently they are going for Pyramids and Oracle, so they might easily switch)
Nevertheless, most probably they will get Math prior to us having finished SoZ, whatever route we take. So - under the assumption they would have / get Ivory - they would outrace us on SoZ, anyway.

I think, my proposal gives us the most benefit. Even if we would be outraced on SoZ, we could switch to MoM than (after the trades I would go for Phil).

I will wait some time for you to comment, otherwise I will go on this way.

[edit] Please take notice that we cannot check for potential Incan Ivory, since our own Ivory supply is not yet connected to our capital. So, this is unclear at the moment. But after having traded writing, we could build an embassy at the Incan capital to become more clear about this topic

 

[Gogf]

1. I think I may have accidentally turned cultural flips off, because they were off in my last game for a test, and I just assumed that in the default they were on . Sorry .
2. I think we need the miltary SoZ can give us. So, we should change it to a temple if, and only if the Incans do beat us to it.
3. If we change from iron working it's a ton of wasted research.

Now, these are all your choices, so it's up to you to decide.

@Team: remember, over the weekend we are playing and posting at GCF, because CFC is down.