Gilad Shalit is free

[amadeus]

Let's say the released prisoners kill 100 Jewish civilians somewhere down the line. Would it have been worth it then?

 

[Ares de Borg]

I guess the answer is yes. Freeing Shalit will give the own people a considerable moral boost because it's giving them the impression that their own government will do anything to bring their boys home. Attacks on civilians, on the other hand, will only strenghten the people's impression that the enemy is evil and should be taken out.

 

[Winner]

If they aren't dangerous, why were they being held?

You need to read what I write:

Are they dangerous? Some of them are, yes. However, Israel made it sure they're being released under conditions that will minimize any danger posed by them. In any case, the risks in this case are greatly outweighed by the benefits.

What is this even supposed to mean? My views changed to become more consistent, not less, and in doing so that means jettisoning my romanticization of the Israelis as being these heroic defenders of freedom against Arab tyranny. It means recognizing that maybe the Israelis are not infallible and that the Arabs have some legitimate grievances. It also means instituting a true pro-American policy of neutrality, full free trade, and non-intervention.

I just don't understand why you are manifesting this change in your outlook in this thread.

I find it hard to believe that so many of you are alienated by the concept that a country will value the life of one of its soldiers higher than one of the enemy's. This is true especially for Americans. Most western countries would rather accept higher enemy losses than endangering the life of one of their own men any other day. I know I would, too. Why shouldn't they trade one of their men for lots of other guys, then? Because it's immoral? Oh, come on... War is sad enough, and if you can save one of your chaps, you should do so. Especially in a case like this. Shalit isn't just one man. He's a symbol. Return him and your people will get the impression that the saying "No one gets left behind" has actual meaning.

I approve this message

Let's say the released prisoners kill 100 Jewish civilians somewhere down the line. Would it have been worth it then?

Do you have a crystal ball that sees into the future?

This "we don't negotiate with terrorist" macho crap has never worked in practice. In reality, sometimes you negotiate, sometimes you don't, depending on the your evaluation of potential risks and benefits.

 

[Silurian]

Many of the IRA terrorists that were released in Northern Ireland were a calming influence on younger newer members of the IRA. After spend 5/10/20 years locked up people have time to consider and talk to others about their objectives. Many will have come to the conclusion that political means may be more effective than military or terrorist methods.

The prisoners just released who still think that fighting is the best method are less likely to be used to infiltrate Israel because they are far more likely to be spotted. They could of course be used to fire rockets but I am sure that Hamas has lots of cannon fodder willing to do that.

 

[JollyRoger]

I think I will start a new business.

1. Capture Israeli soldier
2. ???
3. Profit

Seem like ??? will be filled in by a generous exchange from the Israelis

 

[Winner]

I think I will start a new business.

1. Capture Israeli soldier
2. ???
3. Profit

Seem like ??? will be filled in by a generous exchange from the Israelis

Try that. But don't live in one place for too long; homes of known terrorists have a tendency to blow up.

 

[strijder20]

Can you give some more information on what those released Palestines did to get in prison?
I do not like how the deal seems to mean Israeli are vastly superior than Palestines. After all, both are doing the same : fighting and exterminating each other. I'm glad he is released, but I do hope he won't join the army again.
Fighting, for whatever cause but to save human lives, is wrong. I do not understand why Jewish people want to specifically have that patch of ground where the Palestines lived. Yes, have, not migrate to it. Funding the migration of Jews to Palestina would have caused less trouble, I think, instead of splitting up the country and the conflict it lead to.
I'm glad Shalit is free. I'm upset at the terrible war going on there.

 

[kochman]

Can you give some more information on what those released Palestines did to get in prison?
I do not like how the deal seems to mean Israeli are vastly superior than Palestines. After all, both are doing the same : fighting and exterminating each other. I'm glad he is released, but I do hope he won't join the army again.
Fighting, for whatever cause but to save human lives, is wrong. I do not understand why Jewish people want to specifically have that patch of ground where the Palestines lived. Yes, have, not migrate to it. Funding the migration of Jews to Palestina would have caused less trouble, I think, instead of splitting up the country and the conflict it lead to.
I'm glad Shalit is free. I'm upset at the terrible war going on there.

Again, the deal in no way indicates that the Israelis have set some standard of the arabs being less valuable. Israel wasn't demanding to release more and more Palestinians...
Hamas was demanding more and more Palestinians be released because they know...
Israel values their citizens highly.

 

[amadeus]

I just don't understand why you are manifesting this change in your outlook in this thread.

Manifesting? Have you not read any of my other posts in the last six months?

 

[JollyRoger]

Try that. But don't live in one place for too long; homes of known terrorists have a tendency to blow up.

Let Israel try that on American soil.

 

[civver_764]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html

But no one brings up the "Palestinians rotting in Israeli dungeons." There are kids under 16 years old being imprisoned. Nobody even freaking mentions them. One Israeli soldier gets more attention than the thousands of these Palestinians combined.

Wake the hell up people.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I find it hard to believe that so many of you are alienated by the concept that a country will value the life of one of its soldiers higher than one of the enemy's. This is true especially for Americans. Most western countries would rather accept higher enemy losses than endangering the life of one of their own men any other day. I know I would, too. Why shouldn't they trade one of their men for lots of other guys, then? Because it's immoral? Oh, come on... War is sad enough, and if you can save one of your chaps, you should do so. Especially in a case like this. Shalit isn't just one man. He's a symbol. Return him and your people will get the impression that the saying "No one gets left behind" has actual meaning.

Well said.

I approve this message

This "we don't negotiate with terrorist" macho crap has never worked in practice. In reality, sometimes you negotiate, sometimes you don't, depending on your evaluation of potential risks and benefits.

I like agreeing with you.

 

[Formaldehyde]

This has gone on long enough so this will be it for me. I'm not attacking you personally. You have your opinion and that's fine. You just refuse to admit you prefer one side which i find curious given everyone else here can see it. Also this needs to be said. Because Israeli soldiers have commited atrocities in the past it is not fair to say any given soldier may very well have done so. If i told you i served in the military would you think it fair to say i may have commited atrocities as well because other members of the US military have? I would hope not. I would prefer evidence before casually imlying such a thing.

As I have repeatedly made quite clear, I don't "prefer" one side over the other at all. But I do "prefer" to blame both sides instead of just one. Claiming that "everyone" thinks this way about my opinions is absurd, especially given that it is simply not true. However, I don't remember seeing any criticism of Israel from you in this thread, or any others for that matter. Did overlook it?

And once again, given the number of atrocities committed by Israeli soldiers there is a possibility that any of them could be guilty of war crimes. Of course none of them specifically are guilty unless that is actually proven in a court of law. Unfortunately, the state of Israel obviously has no desire to even investigate who is responsible for the war crimes in the vast majority of cases unless they are forced to do so, and then only in private. So we have no idea who the actual war criminals are in the majority of cases. We just know some Israeli soldier apparently was.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html

But no one brings up the "Palestinians rotting in Israeli dungeons." There are kids under 16 years old being imprisoned. Nobody even freaking mentions them. One Israeli soldier gets more attention than the thousands of these Palestinians combined.

Wake the hell up people.

I have mentioned it numerous times, including in this very thread.

 

[civver_764]

You called their freedom an atrocity..

 

[Formaldehyde]

I called giving freedom to anybody who is actually directly responsible for terrorist acts before they have served their sentences an atrocity. And Human Rights Watch agrees.

 

[Ares de Borg]

Me too.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

As some hardliners would refer him as the "Self-hating Jew." Here his take on it.

His voice isn't as it used to be...


Link to video.

www.DemocracyNow.org - MIT Professor Emeritus Noam Chomsky, the world renewed linguist and political dissident, spoke Monday night at Barnard College in New York City about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, just hours before Israel and Hamas completed a historic prisoner exchange. Democracy Now! airs an excerpt of his address.

"I think [Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit] should have been released a long time ago, but there's something missing from this whole story. There are no pictures of Palestinian women, no discussion, in fact, in the story of, what about the Palestinian prisoners being released? Where do they come from?" Chomsky says. "There is a lot to say about that. For example, we do not know -- at least I do not read it in The Times — whether the release includes the elected officials who were kidnapped and imprisoned by Israel in 2007 when the United States, the European Union, and Israel decided to dissolve the only freely elected legislature in the Arab world."

The last part is on about the American that was killed by the CIA. Not relevant here...

I have searched and searched the web for any notable news stories about the Palestinian prisoners, but only found a huge list of Shalit's stories.

 

[bathsheba666]

Let's say the released prisoners kill 100 Jewish civilians somewhere down the line. Would it have been worth it then?

In response to that, the IDF will - on principle - kill 1000 palestinians, thus relieving some of the crush in the steadily diminishing palestinian territory.

 

[nivi]

As some hardliners would refer him as the "Self-hating Jew." Here his take on it.

His voice isn't as it used to be...


Link to video.




The last part is on about the American that was killed by the CIA. Not relevant here...

I have searched and searched the web for any notable news stories about the Palestinian prisoners, but only found a huge list of Shalit's stories.

I would've expected Chomsky to do his research before making allegations; with the exception of 1/2, they were all already released before the swap.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

I would've expected Chomsky to do his research before making allegations; with the exception of 1/2, they were all already released before the swap.

You know that is totally irrelevant. The point you need to pay attention, is that the lack of media coverage of all of the Palestinian that was involved in the swap. Especially in English-language press and video coverages.