Go alpha or aesthetics?

[dylanmeditates]

I have been playing Vanilla for a while (just got BtS) and a surefire strategy is pick up all worker techs then go alphabet. Works great every time. Now I am seeing/hearing lots of people go for aesthetics first in BtS. So I started doing that and it usually works... but then I had this one game (emperor, normal pangea map) where I went aesthetics and just waited... and waited... and waited until 250 BC before someone had alphabet!!! And it was ragnar who got it and he wouldn't trade with me anyway. After that, I am way way in favor of just going alpha first thing, much less risky. Thoughts?

Thank you civ geniuses.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

It is pretty much an Immortal/Deity strategy due to all lower AIs teching slower than balls. But on Emperor you shouldn't even bother teching Alpha, you should just Oracle Construction every time as it is near impossible not to with those bad of AIs. You can completely wipe out an AI with just Archers, and Catapults on Emperor, and if you don't have Ivory/Copper/Iron after that something went wrong.

 

[Kallikrates]

I don't really see how the research question is connected to wiping out an AI early for access to resources?
The real point is the tech pace, isn't it? Until someone else has Alphabet, Aesthetics is useless, because there will be no trading. If there are some fast techers around but anyway for some other skippable early techs (religious techs, archery etc.) I think it makes a lot of sense to go for alpha first (on Emperor), unless one is approached by an AI that got there first.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

The real point is the tech pace, isn't it?

Agreed. If one expects to be behind in the tech race, then Aesthetics is a good pick.
If one expects to be ahead, then Alpha/Mathematics/xxx should yield better returns. Unless you're going for Litterature asap.

Alpha vs Maths:
Alphabet most notably enables the trade for Iron Working. So if that tech is needed, Alpha is great. Alpha is better with a beeline, as opposed to researching all the worker techs, since it allows to backfill easily.
Mathematics has value for enhanced chops and all the techs it unlocks (from top to bottom: Music, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Civil Service).

 

[Izuul]

In a peaceful opening trading for Alpha works best on 1) Deity or 2) Immortal with a single landmass. Even on Immortal continents where the player has contact with 2-3 AI, it's often difficult to trade for Alpha at a reasonable date.

 

[Strickl3r]

If you have some commerce and some tiles that you want to work for your 3rd, 4th city and so on, but you don't want to bother selfeching the needed stuff(for example animal husbandery, hunting, fishing, masonary) i would consider going alpha. Also iron working is pretty early available on emperor.
Math i would almost always selftech on Emperor, because it can be a mess to wait for AI to trade it.
Even if you have marble and you definetly wanne go for Lit/Music. Teching Alpha, Math before Aesthetics isn't such a bad idea. You can pick up a lot of money with aesthetics or stuff like monarchy, calender and construction later.

€: With some heavy techers on the map you can still gamble for alpha and tech math and put some turn into alpha. Or go Aesthetics of course, but i would still selftch Math most of the times.

 

[ben-jammin]

In a peaceful opening trading for Alpha works best on 1) Deity or 2) Immortal with a single landmass. Even on Immortal continents where the player has contact with 2-3 AI, it's often difficult to trade for Alpha at a reasonable date.

Yep, it definitely depends on which and how many AIs you have early contact with. A few AIs will beeline alpha every time (in my experience mansa, willem, elizabeth, victoria, darius, pericles, zara, sury are pretty much guaranteed). The war mongers and religious zealots are likely to go down the lower half of the tech tree and sometimes wont get alpha at all until you trade it to them.

 

[Manco Capac]

Joao and Lincoln are Alpha lovers.

 

[dylanmeditates]

so to sum up... so if there is a tech whore on the map or someone like lincoln or joao who loves alpha, go for aethetics. otherwise, going alpha may be best if lots of backfilling is required. if not, self-teching math might be the best idea. something like that

 

[Quibblesome]

pick up all worker techs

Then what's the point of alpha? If you've completely backfilled the tech and then get Alpha you're barely going to pick up anything. Against relatively chilled out AIs (under Immortal) if you're going Alpha then skip the worker techs you can afford and get alpha sooner so you can trade for them, you'll then get better deals for your shinier techs.

 

[shadojack]

At emperor (the level I regularly play at) or below, Alpha is the sure bet after necessary worker techs. The decision fork for me occurs over Math versus Currency. I almost always go currency next unless I have a lot of trees, and need to expand quickly or to get the extra hammers for a wonder pronto.

BTW: I find dismissive comments such as "just Oracle construction", or another favorite "just beeline horsearchers" as useful to players learning the game as a 3 foot zucchni, might as well toss it into the compost.

 

[AspiringScholar]

I usually wait until an AI has it, and even then don't trade for it right away as I could already tech trade with the AI(s) that has it. Upon thinking about it, I'm not sure if this is such a great idea anymore.

I'm unsure as to how successful you can be at tech trading that early in the game (and if it is worth it at all). Getting espionage off the ground early on is also tempting, but once again, I'm unsure as to how effective it would be, or if it is a worthy investment in most situations.

 

[Htadus]

On Immortal and likely above, you can get alpha from AI. On Emperor, several AI will get Alpha soon. Of all the AI in the game, Tokugawa loves to learn Alpha. Why you non trading basted? Why? . I guess that would be the fastest way for him to extort techs from others.

On lower levels, if you are surrounded by Ai, then it is better to beeline it if you have some of the needed techs. AH, writing and Alpha has worked very well in the past. The only problem is if you want to chase wonders. Then it is not always the best option. Then again...chasing wonders is not always the best option but for a builder, it is the only option

 

[Izuul]

I usually wait until an AI has it, and even then don't trade for it right away as I could already tech trade with the AI(s) that has it. Upon thinking about it, I'm not sure if this is such a great idea anymore.

I'm unsure as to how successful you can be at tech trading that early in the game (and if it is worth it at all).

Trading that early can be extremely powerful. You shouldn't limit yourself to trading with 1 or 2 AI when you can trade with them all. If you trade for Alpha, you can often turn around and trade Alpha for things like IW and Monarchy (with a bit thrown in) to other AI that don't have it yet.

The other thing it lets you do is build research which can be helpful when you find yourself lacking useful things to build in the early game. It can also help get you to some key techs like Currency if your empire lacks raw commerce.

 

[AspiringScholar]

Trading that early can be extremely powerful. You shouldn't limit yourself to trading with 1 or 2 AI when you can trade with them all. If you trade for Alpha, you can often turn around and trade Alpha for things like IW and Monarchy (with a bit thrown in) to other AI that don't have it yet.

The other thing it lets you do is build research which can be helpful when you find yourself lacking useful things to build in the early game. It can also help get you to some key techs like Currency if your empire lacks raw commerce.

I see. Well I'm glad that that flaw in my play has been noticed. However, would you say that it is preferable to maybe an early IW or some other strong tech in that range? Situation would dictate your decision, of course, but we're speaking generally to begin with in this thread.

 

[Izuul]

I don't think I've actually researched IW myself once in the last 6 months.

 

[AspiringScholar]

I don't think I've actually researched IW myself once in the last 6 months.

Really? I typically don't go for it, but in select cases (such as Rome for early use of Praets) I think it's one of the most essential techs to beeline towards.

 

[Kallikrates]

Unless I have a lot of jungle and/or no bronze and dangerous neighbors I will trade for IW. It is not that strong a tech unless you are playing Rome... For defence axes and spears will do and with peaceful neighbors even chariots. Math and CoL are stronger candidates to get sometimes in preference of alpha.
And even (or especially) if you cannot trade all that much, because you have only contact to 2 other civs, "building" beakers can be powerful to get to certain key techs asap. So unless I try to self tech CoL (instead of getting it from the oracle) alpha is a very high priority for me. Otherwise right after CoL

 

[Izuul]

Rome praet rush or some bad situation like iso or semi iso and you desperately need to clear jungle.