Go Israel!

[LordRahl]

I'm glad at least some countries have the guts Moderator Action: <deleted>:

Israeli military aircraft fired on a Hamas post Saturday in the Gaza Strip, killing at least five gunmen from the Islamic movement, and Israeli troops arrested the second Hamas cabinet minister in less than a week.

A 10th day of Israeli air strikes in Gaza and the arrest of Wasfi Kabha, the Palestinian minister of state, underscored Israel's determination to end Palestinian rocket fire from Gaza that has terrorized several border towns in southern Israel.

Moderator Action: Stop the trolling!
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Eli]

Meh. Same old, same old.

 

[nivi]

Meh. Same old, same old.

Exactly my thought, and change isn't coming soon, not in this decade.

 

[jeps]

I note the fact that the american is excited about israels actions, and the isrealis arent. Shows you a few things.

 

[Eli]

It's time to realize that this generation cannot make peace. We should be drafting a policy that will minimize casualties and damage over the next few decades, and try again then.

Finish the wall, renew the occupation, destroy all power structures above the tribal and local level and encourage civil conflict between the factions. Let them wallow in their own problems for another generation.

 

[Yeeek]

Let them wallow in their own problems for another generation.

Their own problems? Could you elaborate a little more.

 

[nivi]

Their own problems? Could you elaborate a little more.

Gaza strip is (IMHO) more or less a third world country, that the world acutally gives a damn about, with all the problem that comes with it, like millitias, in-fighting, economic stagnation and in recent years even going bac wards, bad education that perputates things, etc...

 

[emzie]

Gaza strip is (IMHO) more or less a third world country, that the world acutally gives a damn about, with all the problem that comes with it, like millitias, in-fighting, economic stagnation and in recent years even going bac wards, bad education that perputates things, etc...

Are there no... outside factors?

 

[nivi]

Are there no... outside factors?

He was talking about letting them wallow in their own problems, meaning problems that are their fault.

 

[Gelion]

Any point to the debate?

 

[MobBoss]

It's time to realize that this generation cannot make peace. We should be drafting a policy that will minimize casualties and damage over the next few decades, and try again then.

Finish the wall, renew the occupation, destroy all power structures above the tribal and local level and encourage civil conflict between the factions. Let them wallow in their own problems for another generation.

Why doesnt Israel deport the whole lot of them? Just march them to the Jordian or Egyptian border and dump em off there?

 

[Homie]

Why doesnt Israel deport the whole lot of them? Just march them to the Jordian or Egyptian border and dump em off there?

You know the answer to that. Europe and the US would condemn them, cut all aid and might even take action against them, like they did with Slobodan Milosovich in the Serbia-Kosovo conflict. Of course Europe don't aid the Israeli's anymore, they do aid Palestinian terror though. So if Europe does that now, imagine what they'd do if Israel did that.

Oh, and the Israel's just aren't that cruel, even though the Palstinians and all the other Arabs want to annihilate them.

 

[Princeps]

Gaza strip is (IMHO) more or less a third world country, that the world acutally gives a damn about, with all the problem that comes with it, like millitias, in-fighting, economic stagnation and in recent years even going bac wards, bad education that perputates things, etc...

Well, usually, when you confine 1.3 something million people to a small area, deprive them of contact with the foreign world, force them to live in squalid, overcrowded and impoverished conditions and bomb them and terrorize them constantly: you get violence --- that's pretty obvious.

Why doesnt Israel deport the whole lot of them? Just march them to the Jordian or Egyptian border and dump em off there?

Well that's called ethnic cleansing.

 

[Eli]

Why doesnt Israel deport the whole lot of them? Just march them to the Jordian or Egyptian border and dump em off there?

What Homie said. It's unfeasible politically, both globally and internally. The Israeli public will not approve outright ethnic cleansing.

 

[Eli]

Well, usually, when you confine 1.3 something million people to a small area, deprive them of contact with the foreign world, force them to live in squalid and impoverished conditions: you get violence --- that's pretty obvious.



Well that's called ethnic cleansing.

Well, the Gazan population grows at a unbelievably high yearly rate of 5.5%. That accounts for the squalid and impoverished conditions more than anything Israel had done.

 

[Princeps]

Well, the Gazan population grows at a unbelievably high yearly rate of 5.5&#37;. That accounts for the squalid and impoverished conditions more than anything Israel had done.

Actually, the main reason for the situation in there is the fact that Israel isolates Gaza and imposes harsh economic sanctions --- that's not even controversial.

 

[Cuivienen]

You know the answer to that. Europe and the US would condemn them, cut all aid and might even take action against them, like they did with Slobodan Milosovich in the Serbia-Kosovo conflict. Of course Europe don't aid the Israeli's anymore, they do aid Palestinian terror though. So if Europe does that now, imagine what they'd do if Israel did that.

Oh, and the Israel's just aren't that cruel, even though the Palstinians and all the other Arabs want to annihilate them.

It would also be absurdly inhumane; realize, of course, that the Arabs were there before the Israelis. (Claims from 2000 years ago are irrelevant.) Ethnic cleansing is not a good thing.

 

[Eli]

Actually, the main reason for those reasons are the fact that Israel isolates Gaza --- that's not even controversial.

Meh. Those policies have their effects, of course. Life in Gaza would've been better without them, of course. But you can't expect to cram 1.4 million people, mostly children, in an area of 360sqkm and have them live well, unless they are of the calm, united, educated, Singaporean kind. The Gazans are quite far from that.

Look on the West Bank. Almost all the Israeli isolation policies apply there as well, yet conditions are much better.

 

[nivi]

Well, usually, when you confine 1.3 something million people to a small area, deprive them of contact with the foreign world, force them to live in squalid, overcrowded and impoverished conditions and bomb them and terrorize them constantly: you get violence --- that's pretty obvious.

Lets break this down word by word shall we?

"Confine?"

Oh you mean something called borders? Maybe you'd rather us all live in one giant global goverment? Oh you wouldn't? Good, in the mean time we have borders.

"1.3 Million"

And whose fault is that? The Israelis or the pallies who breed like rabbits?

"Small area"

See above

|Deprive them of contact|

The people are not deprived of contact, it is the goverment that is shunned.

"force them to live in squalid, overcrowded and impoverished conditions"

I haven't forced anyone to live anyhow, they are the ones whod rather shoot an AK then invent something. The overcroded part was discuessed before.

"bomb them and terrorize them constantly: you get violence"

You're right, that is exactly why Israel killed about 50 people this week. Whoops, maybe they shouldn't have bombed us and terrorized us.


And, wev'e been over this so many times i'm not going to bother to respond, if any one want too, you're free to bang you're head agaist the wall.

 

[Eli]

It would also be absurdly inhumane; realize, of course, that the Arabs were there before the Israelis. (Claims from 2000 years ago are irrelevant.) Ethnic cleansing is not a good thing.

Well, claims from 60 years ago are also irrelevant. And after a theoretical ethnic cleansing, one could say that claims from before it are irrelevant as well.

The truth is that all claims are irrelevant. Eventually it's the situation on the ground that matters.