Going Viking 2

[conquer_dude]

Alright it's working now. Great scenario! Played it last night. I own all of Europe now.

 

[Rambuchan]

Hi there King Arthur.

I ducked out of the footy action yesterday and found time for a quick go of this new version of the scenario with a friend of mine. Sadly, as the Danes on Monarch, it didn't last long.

We tried to settle Sweden and did so. We also launched a war and totally raped the Wends. Francia declared war on us well before all this. The Germans and Frieslanders were so insensed that they went to bust Francia heads over the matter (giving us the cover to abuse the Wends). We were also the first to settle Iceland, which we were both very chuffed about.

However, we didn't play it through because of "The HN factor". I'm so sorry to say it and was even more disappointed to experience it. The Norse kept sending wave upon wave of Viking Raiders down through Sweden and sacked quite a few of our cities, whilst still being at peace. Of course, we could not return the favour and didn't want to declare war, considering our other planned and current exploits. So we just packed the game in because we were going to lose terribly in the face of that relentless, peace-time, Norse offensive.

What's bizarre though is that I don't remember this ever being a problem in the previous version. I'm trying to think why; lack of contact with and proximity to other Vikings? Something else?

Anyway, it's not all tales of woe. What we did play was loads of fun, and even better - we did find two sea monsters!

 

[KingArthur]

Yes I have experienced the same "issue" when settling parts of Sweden.

The Norse do seem to build large numbers of Raiders and use them very effectively.

I wouldn't want to reduce the stats of Raiders or remove their HN ability (they are pretty weak defensively anyway). I have found that an effective strategy is to hit them in the open with my own units but sometimes they come with an escort which does then scupper that plan.

A possible solution is to make them upgrade to another non HN unit or increase their cost. I will try both settings and see which turns out best. My plan is to redo this scenario again sometime and turn it into a Viking equivalent of Rood and Dragon with a much expanded tech tree spanning a greater length of time ~600AD to 1000AD but it will be some time (months) before I manage this. I'll reassess the situation once I complete the update for zombie island.

 

[Mentat]

I honestly had the same issue in my games regarding the Norse. (Why is it, that everybody plays the Danes?)
The only solution was to utterly crush the Norse, which brought me close to a point being run over by the Germans. Though I also found it anoying, I can not deny that it was also challenging. But then, Rambuchan has made the point, "Why at all, should the Vikings go for each other?"

The Raider is frankly one of the most powerful units in the game. Especially with the extra hitpoint. One can easily loose a hero unit or even an army against a few elite raiders. The problem with the raiders is, that they are rarely shipped to England, Ireland or Europe, where they should really cause some havoc. Instead, they head out for the danish cities in south Sweden.

What I also missed in the game, is the eastern part of Skandinavia, and maybe the Baltic and some parts of Russia.

Well, its still a great scenario, and I had really fun playing it.

 

[KingArthur]

Maybe raiders need to relooked at- although, I want the game to be challenging I don't want to spoil people's enjoyment of playing it.

I originally had those parts of the map in along with 3 other factions: Swedes, Balts and Finns. I think I will put them back in when I get round to the expanded version.

 

[Rambuchan]

I think if you were to fill those areas of Sweden in the manner you indicate above, then there would not be that late-REX type aggression being shown by the Norse AI. It seemed to be a classic case of AI trying to capture the last bits of settable land. Not sure if this would solve it, but I do have a Quasi Modo type protrusion about it.

 

[Rambuchan]

Another thing worth mentioning is that cheaper ships mean the Norse and Danes are more likely to use them, together with the amphibious units loaded in them. You could also auto-prod those naval transporters from a wonder/improvement to ensure that the AI has some for sure, rather than hoping it will build ships instead of other units. With these ships, they should take their raiders overseas, rather than raping their brethren across land.

 

[KingArthur]

Okay, I'm thinking about having 3 or 4 eras in the expanded version along with those areas of the map. I think I will start everyone with 1 starting city to give the AI and the player a "natural" expansion phase. Probably now going to start it around 500AD and raiders won't appear till 2nd era.

 

[Heruwulfar]

Hi, I ve played a couple of turns now and enjoyed your mod. There has been some fierce fighting over booty, mainly with the norse. Their raiders come in endless waves and I dont have time to take the smallest of breaks, let alone to bring all the booty home, poor me

Anyway, here is some feedback:
1. When you get a thrall to a city you have the option to Join city but the thrall just disappears and no citizen is made. Should he be able to join or is there a button too much?
2. The entry for harbor says it can be used for upgrading naval units, which it cant, works only with shipwright.
I dont know if the harbor produces veteran units like the entry says.
3. I got the militia unit through the Urbanisation tech and the pedia entry says they are better than other spearmen but the only difference is the militias higher cost of 10 shields. This makes the militia obsolete from the start, only filling out the production list.
Maybe this is more a question of a tribe specific unit in the wrong place? The thegn like the spearman is anglo-saxon but I didnt get him when researching Land grants, only the hersir, as i presume it should be.
4. The entry for carpenter says he requires wool but the link correctly points to the timber entry.

I have a thing for details so I guess I will be back with more stuff in a while but its a cool mod, looking forward to GW3!

 

[KingArthur]

Keep them coming Heruwulfar. I will answer your questions when I get home tonight and have a look in the editor. Thanks for your comments.

 

[Heruwulfar]

Oh and I forgot one thing. I feel that the loading procedure gets very messy fast as the saves are sorted by month, not year. 760 Feb would be better than Feb 760 as all saves from that year would be sorted next to each other, if not in the right monthly order.
This is maybe mostly important for say weekend players that dont play as much and forget their last save point as your mod doesnt remember that and you have to find the save file manually every time.

 

[Heruwulfar]

Some corrections and additions to my post above:
1. The Join city problem also applies to the spearman. Not the regular units; settler and worker though.
2. No veteran units with harbor either, thats also only with shipwright.
3. The militia have 1 more hit point than the spearman, thus the extra cost, the only thing to correct will be to point that out in the pedia entry.

I miss the deforestation tech/ability. Personally I think that this ability should be avaliable to workers and thralls from the start as man has cleared forests for houses, farming and pastures for 6000 years (in Scandinavia).
Your settlers also cant found a city on a forest square (making it hard to get the timber resource between Sweden and Norway without a lot of workers).

 

[KingArthur]

1. When you get a thrall to a city you have the option to Join city but the thrall just disappears and no citizen is made. Should he be able to join or is there a button too much?

I intended thralls to be able to join cities. I think the the unit needs to be given a Pop. Cost of 1 - I'll test it and let you know.

2. The entry for harbor says it can be used for upgrading naval units, which it cant, works only with shipwright.
I dont know if the harbor produces veteran units like the entry says.

The entry is wrong on both counts. Harbours only allow trade over water. The shipwright allows both upgrading and veteran sea units.

3. I got the militia unit through the Urbanisation tech and the pedia entry says they are better than other spearmen but the only difference is the militias higher cost of 10 shields. This makes the militia obsolete from the start, only filling out the production list.
Maybe this is more a question of a tribe specific unit in the wrong place? The thegn like the spearman is anglo-saxon but I didnt get him when researching Land grants, only the hersir, as i presume it should be.

The militia has a hit point bonus of 1 and can be drafted. The text entry should really clarify those points. There's also a mix up between the Militia and the Fyrdman entries.

4. The entry for carpenter says he requires wool but the link correctly points to the timber entry.

Now that's definitely wrong LOL. in the text entry of course.

I have a thing for details so I guess I will be back with more stuff in a while but its a cool mod, looking forward to GW3![/QUOTE]
Look forward to you finding more things for me to fix I will of course address them for the expanded version and patch the existing version too.

 

[KingArthur]

Oh and I forgot one thing. I feel that the loading procedure gets very messy fast as the saves are sorted by month, not year. 760 Feb would be better than Feb 760 as all saves from that year would be sorted next to each other, if not in the right monthly order.
This is maybe mostly important for say weekend players that dont play as much and forget their last save point as your mod doesnt remember that and you have to find the save file manually every time.

That's something that the game itself decides and over which I have no control except to change the time period for turns. The expanded version will probably run a year per turn instead of months per turn.

 

[KingArthur]

Some corrections and additions to my post above:
1. The Join city problem also applies to the spearman. Not the regular units; settler and worker though.

This time my intention is the opposite of the thrall. Spearmen should not join cities so I just need to use the editor to remove the Join City flag from them.

2. No veteran units with harbor either, thats also only with shipwright.

Correct.

3. The militia have 1 more hit point than the spearman, thus the extra cost, the only thing to correct will be to point that out in the pedia entry.

Ah, you've given the answer before me. I should have read your posts in reverse order to save me the trouble of my earlier reply.

I miss the deforestation tech/ability. Personally I think that this ability should be avaliable to workers and thralls from the start as man has cleared forests for houses, farming and pastures for 6000 years (in Scandinavia).

Yes I do agree with your comment. I will restore this worker ability but the cost for clearing forest will be set to a very high number of turn.

Your settlers also cant found a city on a forest square (making it hard to get the timber resource between Sweden and Norway without a lot of workers).

I didn't want the AI to be given too many city spots hence denying them cities in forests. The Norse, Slavs, Franks and Germans can really run wild considering the potential space available to them. This way I can stop them getting too powerful while at the same time keeping their boundaries sort of historically accurate. Of course if I bring back the Clear Forest ability the option will of course return but expansion will be slowed down considerably.

 

[Heruwulfar]

Originally Posted by Heruwulfar
4. The entry for carpenter says he requires wool but the link correctly points to the timber entry.

Now that's definitely wrong LOL. in the text entry of course.

Well I guess he needs clothes too

The draft ability is avaliable when city pop. is 6 not 7 as the pedia says.

Garrison is still called Radar Tower on the button in game.

There is a problem with the AI placing cities at the very southern end and southeastern corner of the map making it hard to go and fight there as the map and buttons are in the way. Some cities are placed so you cant even see their names. Might be a good idea to place some extra rows of mountains and forests to prevent the AI from doing this.

 

[Heruwulfar]

That's something that the game itself decides and over which I have no control except to change the time period for turns. The expanded version will probably run a year per turn instead of months per turn.

Too bad, I like the way it is now when it takes some months to march your troops somewhere, not several years.

I didn't want the AI to be given too many city spots hence denying them cities in forests.

I understand, good point.

 

[KingArthur]

Send me the sav and I'll have a look.

 

[Lord Malbeth]

I have to admit I haven't DLed yet, but I can't wait. As you may know I have dial-up and am hoping to get it from a friend! Looks good BTW!

 

[Lord Malbeth]

OK, I got it and It is awesome! Another KingArthur classic. I did note that a few Wonders have the generic description, and the Coinage graphic is messed up (you put CoinageSMALL under the #TECH_Coinage_Large thing). Anyway, good job!

BTW, I noticed you like sequels (EFZI II, Going Viking II). Any chance of making an Arthur II? Great PTW scenario.