GOTM-05 Pre-Game Discussion

[DaviddesJ]

Thanks DaviddesJ. So the next question is, are the costs equal for the AI.

From the XML, I believe the AI, at Warlord, has +10% cost for units and buildings, and +10% food requirement for cities to grow.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Thanks DaviddesJ. So the next question is, are the costs equal for the AI.

Going to download the practice games and work through the oracle slingshot. It's something I've yet to accomplish but have only tried a couple of times on prince games. It seems like you need a lot of trees to get it done seeing as how you can't have marble (masonry/quarries) if your looking for Civil Service. Don't mean to digress but I'm curious how feasible this is in on warlord difficulty. Hoping to get alphabet and trade back for the religious techs.

Oh it's very possible. I've just tried a practice warlord game (on normal, not epic speed, but I can't see that makes any difference) in which I built *all* the early religious-path wonders (stonehenge, parthenon, oracle, pyramids) without any chopping, and without either stone or marble (actually did get stone, but only about 3 turns before I would've completed the pyramids anyway, Used Oracle to get Civil Service). I just used lots of cows and one copper and one iron square, plus later organized religion, to keep production up in the two cities doing the building. The AI is incredibly slow at wonder-building on this level.

And you can have marble (I just didn't because there wasn't any around). There's no huge rush to build Oracle, so delaying while you get masonry doesn't seem a problem. I suspect if you held off and researched every possible worker action without focusing at all on steering towards code of laws/writing then you might get beaten to the Oracle, but having a few diversions en route doesn't seem to be a problem like it would be at monarch and above.

Anyone know what an SoD is? It usually seems to be in reference to warfare posts so my guess is 'stack of death' or something along those lines.

Yep that's it (personally I've normally heard it referred to as stack of doom, which I like better. I'm not sure what the most popular usage is). Basically the term for a big pile of units moving together.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Yeah, there's no reason you can't have Masonry and use the Oracle to get Civil Service. I think you're confusing this with the strategy where you avoid Masonry so that you can use a GP to give you Civil Service.

 

[Ribannah]

Stack of Doom, indeed. I've never had one myself, but my AI opponents have, and I've even had to deal with barbarian SoD's.

 

[JerichoHill]

A very large stack of mixed units. In my test games my stacks of doom are normally

1) 6 Axemen

then

2) 5 Axemen 2 Swords 1 Horse Archer

and finally

3) #2 + 4 Cats

It is very easy to do the Civil Service Slingshot with the Oracle. Assuming we have ANY resources. If we don't...oh well. Still shouldn't be tough.

Just remember to research up to writing, then fill in the religious tech (if the AI knows em, there's a discount as long as you have contact with them). and as you're building the oracle, research CoL.

 

[culdeus]

Screwed around and got a 700AD conquest win on map 3 last night. Took just a hair under 3 hours to do it. If things fall right I can see maybe a 250AD win by me and prolly a BC win by a pro.

The barb thing is so hard to deal with because the AI doesn't expand fast enough to do any fog busting of their own.

I really don't think there is a specific tech path that is any better than any other to start with. Could see lots of AH->AG->Pot->BW maybe?

 

[Thrallia]

I will likely go with either BW or pottery first, pottery because the financial trait will lend itself to massive science early on, and BW so I know where to expand to before I start my massacre of the AI.

Also, I suspect that the AI may be all or nearly all aggressive or early tech UU civs.

 

[Markus5]

I also am in the middle of a test with map 3. Its about 900ad and I'm building up an army of cossacks. The first cossacks are going west to deal with barbs. They seem to come out of any bit of fog. I have the heroic epic complete and will trigger another golden age with the Taj Mahal, then see how fast I can sweep the map. The first golden age saw macemen and cats wipe out Isabella and most of Roosvelt. I only stopped because I wanted to see cossacks again.

It will indeed be fun to see how this game is played out by everyone.

 

[pholkhero]

go BW first...w/the settlers you may pop (if there are GH's), you can found near copper very early

 

[Orion071]

go BW first...w/the settlers you may pop (if there are GH's), you can found near copper very early

I'm going under the assmumption that the goody huts have all been removed. The ability to pop a settler or a worker is so unbalancing in a competition like this. Otherwise you're going to have people saying "I popped 2 settlers and a worker early and finished my conquest victory in 870 BC..."

 

[johnny_rico]

I played one of the practice games last night and the goody huts gave me not a single settler or worker. Each goody hut was more than happy to show me a little of the map directing me to more goody huts with more maps. It was amusing. I still managed to take out cyrus, Qin, and elizabeth by 100 AD or so. But then I ran into major problems with barbarians and not having enough troops at home. I actually gave back a couple of cities and then quit. I screwed up the CS slingshot as well. I got it, but didn't realize it was as easy as priesthood + writing to get code of laws. Does code of laws have to be finished researching before the oracle is built to generate CS as a free tech? The trick is going to be working in metal casting and machinery as well early to get the macemen.

Given that the barbarians will spam even from a single square in the fog of war. I think I'm going to settler spam, spread my cities out, gradually build my trade network, and allow catherine's culture growth to fill the gaps. My aim is to try to keep troops at home, build lots of city raider 3 axemen, swords, and maces by slaughtering the barbarian horde and then send out multiple SoD's in a vareity of direction to war with as many AIs as possible. I imagine I'll try to take out at least one opponent very early, maybe two and the remaining four or five simultaneously.

I am also considering a city of two in the mountains. You could build some cities with a number of forest squares in the teens. Hook up the cities with marble and stone and you could chop wonders all day long. The cities don't even need to grow. If you stagger tiles when chopping, you might even get some to regrow.

My biggest concern is the difficulty itself. I'm curious if I'm developing some bad habits with warlord.

With techs I'm thinking BW, and then AH or Pottery. The copper is a must as are some early cottages in the capital, preferably on flood plains if they're available. I'm thinking a single commerce city can support the empire. Enough cash will be generated sacking cities.

 

[nealhunt]

Yeah, there's no reason you can't have Masonry and use the Oracle to get Civil Service. I think you're confusing this with the strategy where you avoid Masonry so that you can use a GP to give you Civil Service.

On Warlord, you ought to be able to run it so that you research CoL, us a prophet for Civil Service, then finish with the Oracle to pick up Nationalism while still well in the BCs.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I got it, but didn't realize it was as easy as priesthood + writing to get code of laws. Does code of laws have to be finished researching before the oracle is built to generate CS as a free tech?

Yep. You must have researched all the prerequisites to be offered a tech by the Oracle. If it looks like you'll finish the Oracle too early, you can always swap to building something else for a few turns.

The trick is going to be working in metal casting and machinery as well early to get the macemen.

Yeah, but as soon as the Oracle gives you CS, you can swap civics to bureaucracy. As long as you've taken care to ensure your capital city is giving you a fair amount of commerce, that should speed up getting metal casting and machinery.

I am also considering a city of two in the mountains. You could build some cities with a number of forest squares in the teens. Hook up the cities with marble and stone and you could chop wonders all day long. The cities don't even need to grow. If you stagger tiles when chopping, you might even get some to regrow.

If the consensus of this forum is correct and we are starting in the SouthWest, you probably won't find many forests around. In great plains maps, the forests tend to run down the east side of the map.

My biggest concern is the difficulty itself. I'm curious if I'm developing some bad habits with warlord.

Just enjoy it and take advantage of a rare opportunity to not have to bother thinking very much when you're playing. S'what I'll be doing

 

[johnny_rico]

dynamic spirit,

Playing one of the practice games had a ton of forests mixed in with the rockies to the west. It was more forest than mountain. Not certain our map will be like that but it could be.

 

[culdeus]

dynamic spirit,

Playing one of the practice games had a ton of forests mixed in with the rockies to the west. It was more forest than mountain. Not certain our map will be like that but it could be.

There are lots of forest mixed in the rockies on all 3 of the test maps I've played. For a pure conquest I would not utilize those spots. Domination you won't have much of a choice.

Vegas announced over under on speed of victories by warmongering today:

Win by Conquest 50BC
Win by Domination 450AD

 

[DynamicSpirit]

There are lots of forest mixed in the rockies on all 3 of the test maps I've played. For a pure conquest I would not utilize those spots. Domination you won't have much of a choice.

Fair enough. I must have had a couple of atypical maps.

 

[rkyte]

I played a practice map and the 4 squares in the top left hand corner were surrounded by mountains! (Would love to get a screen shot up)

In about 500 AD a barbarian appeared and every turn I got the 'enemy has been sighted' message - drove me insane. It wasn't until I got an attack helicopter that I could finally kill him.

At that point nobody would hold it against you if you went in to the world builder and "fixed" the problem.

 

[ionimplant]

If it looks like you'll finish the Oracle too early, you can always swap to building something else for a few turns.

i've got a question regarding this. i know that we can insert a unit/building to the top of the building queue, but i haven't figured out a way to switch the order.
for example, we're building oracle, and want to delay its finishing date a few turns. so we put a courthouse to the top of the queue. after a few turn we get all the required tech and are ready to do the slingshot, how do we move oracle back to the top? i remember i always end up getting that removed from the queue instead to the top of the queue.

 

[malekithe]

for example, we're building oracle, and want to delay its finishing date a few turns. so we put a courthouse to the top of the queue. after a few turn we get all the required tech and are ready to do the slingshot, how do we move oracle back to the top? i remember i always end up getting that removed from the queue instead to the top of the queue.

In this scenario, just remove the courthouse and add it back in at the bottom of the queue. You won't loose any of the progress on the courthouse by temporarily removing it (even if you leave it out of the queue altogether for a few turns, I believe).

 

[Ribannah]

Remove the Oracle and then add it again, and it will appear at the top. The game remembers that you put hammers into something even if it has left the queue, so there is no risk.